More questions! We have government run Auto insurance here in Manitoba. They auction off 300-400 written-off vehicles every Wednesday. For challenge purposes, title status doesn't matter. But what if I wanted to drive the challenge car to Gainesville - does the cost of the body integrity and safety inspections required for getting license plates count?
I'm thinking no, if no parts are put into the car to pass.
In reply to Run_Away :
nope doesn't count
In reply to AnthonyGS :
Umm... let's clarify that. The cost of the inspections is not in the budget. The cost of any related repairs to pass the inspections IS.
SVreX said:In reply to AnthonyGS :
Umm... let's clarify that. The cost of the inspections is not in the budget. The cost of any related repairs to pass the inspections IS.
i respectfully disagree with your last statement. it could be argued (as i'm doing right now LOL) that the cost of "any related repairs to pass the inspection" would only hit the Challenge budget if (1) they would have a positive impact on Challenge score *and* (2) they were required to pass Challenge tech. Reason: Challenge cars are not required to be registered for street use. example: to pass his registration requirements in MB, he might be required to have a full exhaust system that exits some distance behind the rear axle. Clearly not a Challenge requirement. same could go for lights, wipers, horn, window glass, etc etc. Some parts, like seat belts, battery hold down, etc, might be required for both MB street licensing and Challenge tech, and in that case then yes their cost would be included in the budget.
That being said, if the street legal/driver status is part of any presentation, all things required for that should be in the budget. Like 2 headlight bulbs, wiper blades, mudflaps, whatever canada requires.
Right?
Dusterbd13-michael said:That being said, if the street legal/driver status is part of any presentation, all things required for that should be in the budget. Like 2 headlight bulbs, wiper blades, mudflaps, whatever canada requires.
Right?
even if Canadia requires 2 working headlights, if i had to replace both i'd still only claim 1 on my budget because only 1 is required to pass Challenge tech. however, if that 2nd headlight improved the appearance of the car ie has a positive impact on Challenge score, then yes both should be in the budget.
i probably should avoid these conversations.
In reply to AngryCorvair :
Yep. We disagree.
We can wait until the staff responds, but you can't just do improvements to the car and keep them off the budget because they were not required for the event. Improvements are improvements, and impact the Concors score.
If that was the case, we could do all kinds of improvements off-budget. 
I think if it has two working headlights, and you bought those headlights either yourself or via a shop, then they go in the budget.
Pull one out and set it in a box and put the bad bulb back in, then you can take it out of the budget IMO
If it's on the car during the competition or the Concors, it's in the budget.
Unless something is specifically called out in the rules as exempt, it is not exempt. Period. This year the list of exemptions was exceedingly short. There is no language saying only counts if it affects the Challenge score or anything else like that.
Also, the 2020 rules aren't posted yet. They will be soon, though.
Patiently waiting for the new rules!
I wasn't looking to make challenge exempt changes, just clarifying what counts. If I put parts on the car to make it road legal, I would remove them from the car before the challenge.
But if the car requires zero work or parts to pass, do the inspection fees count?
In reply to Run_Away :
No, an inspection is not part of the car
If a property is purchased and vehicles convey with the purchase of the property, and the property appraises at higher than the purchase price at the time of purchase, then what do the vehicles count as towards challenge budget.
Basically there are 6-7 vehicles that have some varying levels of value that convey with a property that I'm looking at. The value of the vehicles isn't being taken into consideration when evaluating the price of the property.
In reply to captdownshift :
A few years ago we were afraid you were going to buy the farm, now it sounds like you may be buying a farm. 
interesting concept, this property could be a “lot” of cars plus parts, but total price would have to be $2000 or less.
shenanigans aside, IMO this is a case where a forum-approved or otherwise well-supported FMV would apply.
In reply to AngryCorvair :
Not a farm, but a potentially haunted shop. It's less than 2 miles from the track-like location in PA as well. I'm sure multiple misdemeanors will follow if I get it.
One would assume fmv in this case. FIL had a land contract sale on a house and they're evicted as of the 4th, so in 3 days i'll know if they left 4 derilect cars behind the house. I assume i would have to fmv them if FIL gives them to me because it's a family deal, or I'd have to pay him scrap value if they're getting scrapped.
In reply to Patrick :
Interesting. If someone is *paying you to haul a car away* (hey, get this non-running pile off my property) would you potentially start with a negative budget expense?
In reply to Greg Smith :
i think that would be covered by "you can't recover more than you spent" (loose paraphrase)
I’m moving this question here from the other thread... I was posting in the wrong thread without realizing it.
Is a subframe a sufficient enough component of a structure to qualify as a modified production frame rail or equivalent unibody structures?
Example: The Miata is a unibody constructed body supported by 2 subframes and a PPE tying them together. The entire Miata body can be removed from the roller skate. The roller skate serves a similar purpose as a frame. It is the structure that supports the drivetrain, suspension, steering, and body. It is very similar in purpose to a frame in a body-on-frame car.
Do the subframes serve as “equivalent unibody structures” as “production frame rails”?
Thanks!
In reply to SVreX :
I think this is a fair discussion, and open for multiple interpretations. The intent of the rule makers must be kept in mind. I would venture to say they are looking to see a certain type of finished product that is recognizable by readers as a production based vehicle.
In your Miata example, let's use the roller skate as the base of an Exocet. Would you consider an Exocet to still be recognizable to the general reader as production based?
The other question asked was would a Bradley GT body count as production since they did make turn key Bradley GTs and they have serial numbers as seen below. Also if they count would other turn key kit cars count? These questions are assuming the competitor is using the body only without a "pan".
In reply to Run_Away :
I may need to get in touch with you, I'm next door not far from the MB border (in SK) so I may be able to lend a hand in some challenge endevours! I know I can't make the event myself, but I'd like to assist if I can!
gumby said:In reply to SVreX :
I think this is a fair discussion, and open for multiple interpretations. The intent of the rule makers must be kept in mind. I would venture to say they are looking to see a certain type of finished product that is recognizable by readers as a production based vehicle.
In your Miata example, let's use the roller skate as the base of an Exocet. Would you consider an Exocet to still be recognizable to the general reader as production based?
I agree with your example, but the rules permit a car with no body at all, as long as the frame rails came from a production vehicle. And it permits modifying them.
I don’t think modified frame rails will be recognizable as a car.
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