Cheap horsepower or snake oil?

Of course maintenance is key and different cars will have different modification pathways, but these mods are relatively universal. Of course maintenance is critical to restoring lost power but what about cheap options after that?

1. Grounding kits
2. PTFE Oil Additives (E.G. Polydyn TX7)
3. Phenolic spacer

I know the phenolic spacer is a legitimate modification, but what about the other? Are grounding kits good for 1-2 hp or all smoke and inconsistency?

I'm most skeptical about the oil additives but a well recognized tuner/developer for the 2zz really was impressed with polydyn tx7.

These mods in total would be <$100 dollars and if I could get 5whp I would be more than happy as would many owners of lightweight cars.

If this is stupid I'll delete it, it's late and I may not be thinking straight.

You would never even notice a 1-2hp change. The error in the dyno would be greater that that.

The "relatively universal mods" are:

-More air in

-More air out

Anything else tends to be "fluff"

anything that says it's good for 1-2hp is snake oil pretty much. That is within a variables for things like the weather.

Additional grounds can't hurt, but rarely bring extra HP. The only time they make power is if the factory grounds are grossly inadequate. You can do extra grounds yourself for way cheaper than a kit.

Phenolic spacers, oil additives.... you could spend $300 on all of this stuff and maybe get a 3 hp increase. Not worth it.

You get Phenolic spacers when your turbo's boost charge makes heat. Then your phenolic spacers helps you get 15 more hp instead of 0.04 more hp on a naturally aspirated engine. Make sense?

There is that "lightning in a bottle" stuff in the latest issue that actually did make a difference on the dyno runs.

There are a few specific engines that have real bad intake manifold heat soak problems; some of the Nissan V6s come to mind. These have actually shown some pretty healthy gains with phenolic spacers, but on anything else, they are a trivial improvement.

I wouldn't expect any power out of a grounding kit, though a more efficient charge system is never a bad thing. I guess I install a "grounding kit" on most cars, but it's just some of those 10AWG starter cables you can buy at Parts Store X run from the battery to an engine ground, and from the engine to the chassis ground.

Why not use a hotter coil, larger gap plugs, high-grade wires and possibly a small advance in timing.

It's kinda free if you're replacing this stuff.

Other ignition systems (distributor less) may benefit from similar mods.

Get the most complete burn first before you worry about the rest.

ive always seen phenolic spacers as a heat soak solution rather then power adder, mostly just for carb stuff. and like SlickDizzy said, a large ground from battery to engine and engine to chassis will do the job

On an older vehicle with corroded grounding connections, yes, you can actually get an improvement with a "grounding kit."

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/1787/Electrical-Basics-and-Automotive-Grounding-Systems.aspx

The key here is to tie the sensors' ground reference plane into the same ground as the rest of the automobile using as low an impedance connection as possible. This gives the sensors and PCM a "cleaner" signal to work from. It can also increase the power available to the ignition system, resulting in a "hotter" spark. The starter motor might also get a boost, resulting in easier starting.

I did notice an improvement in engine response and idle on an older '90 Dodge Shadow by supplementing the aging ground points (which were never good to begin with) with a grounding kit purchased from FWD Performance.

The phenolic spacer is legit but the gains are small. Not all small gains are snake oil but they're harder to prove, and therefore that area of gains becomes a hiding ground for bullE36 M3 technologies - so when you see something promising 1-2hp you should set your bullE36 M3 detector to maximum sensitivity.

I recently redid the suspect grounds on my crap can e30, added a few and refreshed every imaginable factory ground on the 25 year old car. Results were instantly noticed in smoothness in idle and throughout entire range. Butt Dyno absolutely reported a power increase...

The issues is that I restored lost power; I did not add anything over stock (except complimenting other mods).

The best free / cheap mods are really maintenance, not horsepower in a bottle.

I am a big believer in temperature control when it comes to keeping the hot stuff hot and the cold stuff cold. I am pretty sure you can gain/regain a little power with attention to small details, but I wouldn't count on finding much...

I have never heard of improving the grounds on a vehicle as a performance modification. The car stereo guys do what they call a "Big 3" wiring upgrade the includes better grounds as well as additional positive wiring. It's hard to see how that would translate into more horsepower unless the car had some serious electrical issues before.

for under $100.... I say go for it!

Especially in a low power engine(under 125hp) a 4-5 hp, or 4-5#/ft difference usually can be felt.

I was never one for grounding kits... but have seen some gains in well documented articles... but most often the kit are not nearly as nice a fit as OEM. As curtis73 suggests you might just add a few grounds yourself.

Ahhh PTFE.... I'm a believer. My personal experience was with the original Slick 50 (http://www.skepdic.com/comments/slickcom.html - I believe I had the Uk stuff) some 30 years ago?? I used it in my wifes Volvo 122S... I followed the directions change oil and immediately drive 45 minutes to get the engine very hot. Once I was finished... I noticed the idle speed had moved from a before Slick 50 900rpm, to an after Slick 50 1200rpm. I also noticed a fuel mileage improvement from about 20 around town to almost 24 around town.

phenolic spacers - although minimal... its some improvement without any moving(wearout) parts...

Its only $100...

SEADave wrote: I have never heard of improving the grounds on a vehicle as a performance modification. The car stereo guys do what they call a "Big 3" wiring upgrade the includes better grounds as well as additional positive wiring. It's hard to see how that would translate into more horsepower unless the car had some serious electrical issues before.

It's not a performance modification. Read the article I posted. It's simply restoring lost power caused by corroding and dirty connections.

I'd expect more gains with a thinner oil, as opposed to PTFE. It's worth noting that DuPont has put out a couple "please don't use Teflon as an oil additive; it's not supposed to be used that way" official application notes. But thinner oil does reduce bearing drag.

Phenolic spacers need stainless bolts to work, otherwise the heat just conducts through the bolts and you have made zero gain.

Hmm...

How come I can cook in stainless pots just fine then?

Knurled wrote: Phenolic spacers need stainless bolts to work, otherwise the heat just conducts through the bolts and you have made zero gain.

Trans_Maro wrote: Hmm... How come I can cook in stainless pots just fine then?

Knurled wrote: Phenolic spacers need stainless bolts to work, otherwise the heat just conducts through the bolts and you have made zero gain.

It's called "thermal conductivity"...stainless is much less conductive than typical carbon steel.

Honestly, I can't believe I just read such a Fox News-esque retort to a scientific fact on this board.

The grounding kits aren't for power per se. But many cars have factory grounds that are the bare minimum in their effectiveness. I added a few ground wires in past cars and while the car didn't feel any faster or more powerful, there was a CLEAR change in the engine's smoothness at idle, and an issue with lights dimming with a large stereo system "kicking" went away once everything was grounded well. But they're really just supplemental grounds for cars whose ground wires are old, corroded, worn, missing, or whatever.

Bottom line: For about 10 bucks in wires and fittings from home depot you can make them easily. It may do something, it may not. If not, you're out 10 bucks....I certainly wouldn't buy the 50-100$$ "hyperground" kits with 0-gauge wire on the web. IIRC I used 6-gauge for mine.

SlickDizzy wrote: There are a few specific engines that have real bad intake manifold heat soak problems; some of the Nissan V6s come to mind. These have actually shown some pretty healthy gains with phenolic spacers, but on anything else, they are a trivial improvement. I wouldn't expect any power out of a grounding kit, though a more efficient charge system is never a bad thing. I guess I install a "grounding kit" on most cars, but it's just some of those 10AWG starter cables you can buy at Parts Store X run from the battery to an engine ground, and from the engine to the chassis ground.

Agree, I was a moderator on the Maxima forums and the VQ35 cars showed noticeable and repeatable gains on dynos. Always. I don't specifically recall offhand, but I want to say it was about 10whp. Mostly because of the metal intake manifolds on those cars (and early VG30/VQ30 cars)

The VQ30DE/DE-K cars (which have a composite IM already) got much smaller gains 1-3hp. Very few people bought phenolic spacers for those unless they were boosted.

irish44j wrote: Agree, I was a moderator on the Maxima forums and the VQ35 cars showed noticeable and repeatable gains on dynos. Always. I don't specifically recall offhand, but I want to say it was about 10whp. Mostly because of the metal intake manifolds on those cars (and early VG30/VQ30 cars) The VQ30DE/DE-K cars (which have a composite IM already) got much smaller gains 1-3hp. Very few people bought phenolic spacers for those unless they were boosted.

Those spacers were really thick though weren't they? They effectively changed the lengths of the runners and shifted the curve to the left. My current car also has a metal intake manifold so I'm hoping it'll be able to fight off heatsoak in the summer.

And in regard to the grounding kit--I neglected to mention that I would not buy the colortastic expensive kits. It'd definitely be DIY or <20 dollar kit.

Trans_Maro wrote: Hmm... How come I can cook in stainless pots just fine then?

Knurled wrote: Phenolic spacers need stainless bolts to work, otherwise the heat just conducts through the bolts and you have made zero gain.

Typically, SS cookware is of multi-layer construction, with aluminum, or sometimes copper, sandwiched inbetween, for heat conductivity.

Even if phenolic spacers worked perfectly they're pointless. A completely heatsoaked manifold is only going to raise the temperature of the air passing through it at full throttle a couple degrees. Not even a horse power was had that day.

lnlds wrote:

irish44j wrote: Agree, I was a moderator on the Maxima forums and the VQ35 cars showed noticeable and repeatable gains on dynos. Always. I don't specifically recall offhand, but I want to say it was about 10whp. Mostly because of the metal intake manifolds on those cars (and early VG30/VQ30 cars) The VQ30DE/DE-K cars (which have a composite IM already) got much smaller gains 1-3hp. Very few people bought phenolic spacers for those unless they were boosted.

Those spacers were really thick though weren't they? They effectively changed the lengths of the runners and shifted the curve to the left. My current car also has a metal intake manifold so I'm hoping it'll be able to fight off heatsoak in the summer. And in regard to the grounding kit--I neglected to mention that I would not buy the colortastic expensive kits. It'd definitely be DIY or <20 dollar kit.

I recall that there were a couple different thicknesses for the VQ35, though I can't say I remember the rationale behind it. I'm sure the extension of the runner length has an effect as well as the reduced heat soak. But that doesn't really explain why the gains on the VQ35 are so much more than on the VQ30 with the composite manifold. IDK, I didn't have them on mine so can't comment firsthand.

oldeskewltoy wrote: I was never one for grounding kits... but have seen some gains in well documented articles... but most often the kit are not nearly as nice a fit as OEM. As curtis73 suggests you might just add a few grounds yourself.

Adding extra grounds can cause problems too. For every ground loop, current will flow through that loop and induce voltages. A single low resistance ground path is best and will have no ground loop current.

I personally would replace the existing engine ground wire with a new copper cable on clean bolts with star washers.