"Cheap sportscars don't sell"

I'm tired of hearing this line, especially here. So I dug around a little and pulled up the US production numbers for some of the most popular cheap sports cars. Realize this is US sales only, no Canada, no Mexico, no Japan, no rest of the world, just good ole 'Merika. Do you see any trends?

Check it out:

Datsun Z
1970: 16,215
1971: 33,684
1972: 52,628
1973: 45,588
1974: 40,172 1974 2+2: 9,499
1975: 40,216 1975 2+2: 11,594
1976: 45,766 1976 2+2: 13,792
1977: 54,594
1978: 62,699
280ZX
1979: 86,007
1980: 53,687
1981: 73,177
1982: 63,855
1983: 55,011
300ZX
1984: 73,652
1985: 71,781
1986: 60,090
1987: 33,283
1988: 20,051

Mazda RX-7
1978: 19,299
1979: 54,853
1980: 43,731
1981: 43,418
1982: 48,889
1983: 52,514
1984: 55,696
1985: 53,810
1986: 56,243
1987: 38,345
1988: 27,814
1989: 16,249
1990: 9,743
1991: 6,986
1992: 6,006
1993: 5,062

Mazda Miata
1990: 51,658
1991: 34,610
1992: 24,847
1993: 22,350
1994: 22,705
1995: 20,790
1996: 17,984
1997: 17,381
1999: 36,450
2000: 18,121
2001: 16,165
2002: 15,956
2003: 10,547
2004: 9,629
2005: 7,760
2006: 17,730
2007: 15,075
2008: 10,977

Toyota MR2
1984: 1217
1985: 37674
1986: 31352
1987: 15742
1988: 8144
1989: 2537
1990: 17606
1991: 9505
1992: 3740
1993: 1742
1994: 625
1995: 93

Toyota MR-S 2000: 7233
2001: 6750
2002: 5109
2003: 3249
2004: 2800
2005: 780

Porsche 924
1978: 11638
1979: 9636 Turbo: 950
1980: 3700 Turbo: 3440
1981: 2155 Turbo: 1529
1982: 2277 Turbo: 876

Porsche 924S
1987: 6947
1988: 2190

Porsche 944
1983: 5506
1984: 16618
1985: 6167
1986: 10901 Turbo: 7513
1987: 8346 Turbo: 3221 S: 3127
1988: 3731 Turbo: 1972 S: 5562
1989: 5652 Turbo: 1385 S2: 970
1990: 0 Turbo: 144 S2: 2273
1991: 0 S2: 1072

Porsche Boxster
2003: 6432
2004: 3728
2005: 8327
2006: 4850 Cayman: 7313
2007: 3904 Cayman: 6249
2008: 2982 Cayman: 3513
2009: 1909 Cayman: 1966
2010: 2177 Cayman: 1322

Pontiac Fiero
1984: 136,840
1985: 76,371
1986: 83,974
1987: 46,581
1988: 26,243

Seems to me whenever an affordable sports car hit the market it sells like hotcakes. When it gets pricier the sales fall off dramatically. Still, there seems to have been quite the US market for a good 20-25 years.

Wonder what more modern cars sales numbers will look like? I hope the BRZ/FRS sell like gangbusters, too. I'd love to add them here. What else should I look at? The rest of the NC production? Toyota MR-2? Original 986 Porsche Boxster? Fiero? Corvette?

It definitely makes for interesting reading.

I prefer cheap sports cars. Would I like an expensive one? Sure. Look at my garage. None of them are worth over 3k.

I'd be interested in seeing what that comes out to in terms of dollars and/or profit dollars for the each company.

Also interesting to note that the more upmarket RX7 (and often more expensive considering inflation) outsold the Miata 3:2 even though there's 4 less production years in that sample.

I'd also be interested to know how many cars Porsche is even capable of making in a year. I don't think they were ever setting out to be high-volume.

Big trend I see- none of the cars can support a factory on their own.

None of them actually sold in lots of numbers.

there may be pent up demand, but you are not going to make much money on a product where sales drop by 50% in year 2.

Oh, and outside of the Miata, they all came and went. Some more than once. And are trying to comeback, yet again.

Also a fun fact: In 2011, Toyota sold just about as many Camrys as Mazda sold Miatas in the 16 years shown.

Sooo... no. Cheap sportscars don't "sell like hotcakes" when considering the rest of the automotive sales.

Saying "There were over half a million 1st and 2nd gen RX7s sold in the US" sure does SOUND good, though.

I think there are a lot of factors in those numbers. Certainly one of them is as you mentioned. Cars like the Z got bigger, heavier, more expensive and further from it's roots.

I also think a lot of other things had an effect. Market saturation and competition probably factor in. Also, some of those cars were getting "long in the tooth" towards the end.

The MR2s numbers were fairly similar in trend, especially for the MKII. I forget how many they sold in '94 and '95, but it was only a handful.

I don't understand why sports cars don't sell. I mean no one wakes up in the morning dreaming of owning a Camry.

93EXCivic wrote: I don't understand why sports cars don't sell. I mean no one wakes up in the morning dreaming of owning a Camry.

To most people, cars are not far removed from a toaster or dishwasher.

93EXCivic wrote: I don't understand why sports cars don't sell. I mean no one wakes up in the morning dreaming of owning a Camry.

I think you overestimate the number of people who get up dreaming of driving in the first place.

MG Bryan wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: I don't understand why sports cars don't sell. I mean no one wakes up in the morning dreaming of owning a Camry.

To most people, cars are not far removed from a toaster or dishwasher.

This.

I don't want a Ferrari Toaster. (Ok well... i do, kindof. But it won't make my morning toast that much better.)

alfadriver wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: I don't understand why sports cars don't sell. I mean no one wakes up in the morning dreaming of owning a Camry.

I think you overestimate the number of people who get up dreaming of driving in the first place.

Also: This.

Also see: Impractical.

A sports car SOUNDS awesome to own, but so far, i'm giving the overall experience a solid MEH.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

MG Bryan wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: I don't understand why sports cars don't sell. I mean no one wakes up in the morning dreaming of owning a Camry.

To most people, cars are not far removed from a toaster or dishwasher.

This. I don't want a Ferrari Toaster. (Ok well... i do, kindof. But it won't make my morning toast that much better.)

But you CAN have a Ferrari monitor.

alfadriver wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: I don't understand why sports cars don't sell. I mean no one wakes up in the morning dreaming of owning a Camry.

I think you overestimate the number of people who get up dreaming of driving in the first place.

Bingo.

There was a time when kids grew up dreaming of hot rods. Then sports cars. Then, just wanting a car. Now they want phones that are no more than four months old.

The world is a different place.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I'd be interested in seeing what that comes out to in terms of dollars and/or profit dollars for the each company.

That's a very good question! It's probably impossible to find profit-per-model numbers, but company revenue/profits per model year should be able to be found. I'll see if I can dig them up.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Also interesting to note that the more upmarket RX7 (and often more expensive considering inflation) outsold the Miata 3:2 even though there's 4 less production years in that sample.

The answer here is actually a little obvious, in my opinion. The Miata is a roadster only car. For many people a sports car remains a daily driver and they need to be able to bring the kids to school, go shopping, live in snow states, etc so a roadster just isn't practical. Also look at the sales numbers for the 2+2 Z's. The more practical it is, the better it will sell. That's why I think the BRZ/FRS will do so well.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I'd also be interested to know how many cars Porsche is even capable of making in a year. I don't think they were ever setting out to be high-volume.

Porsche sold way, way more 924's and 944's in the ROW than in the US. Those numbers got pretty staggering. They are making Cayenne's and Panamera's like crazy right now and have either 2 or 3 production facilities, plus Magna Steyr (IIRC) was building the Boxtser up to very recently, so contracting out isn't below them, either. I know they are tooling up for the Macan CUV, the 918, and a mystery sportscar that's above the 911 and below the 918. I think it's been called the 961 and is supposed to go against the F458 and McLaren MP4-12C. Not affordable, but just pointing out that they think they have more capacity anyway.

The Miata's numbers are interesting - by 2000 or so, the UK was selling more of the Miata than the US was, so focusing on a single market isn't telling the whole story. And in 1990, Canadians were buying more Miatas per capita than Americans, which reversed itself a few years later. You can also see a bump that corresponds to a new model, which also corresponded to a longer model year in the Miata.

Another note about the Miata - they didn't get more expensive. In corrected dollars and comparing MSRP, a brand new 2012 is less expensive than the 1990 was.

"Hotcakes" being a relative term. Obviously none of these cars can compete with the good old mid-size sedan or the half-ton pick-up in the US, but it's definitely bigger than a niche market. That's kind of the point, I guess. The US market used to have oodles of affordable sportscar choices and they all sold well. With the BRZ/FRS that market might come back.

40K+ units a year is nothing to sneeze at! (The Z's good years from 72-86, the 7's years from 79-86)

In reply to Keith:

Worldwide sales are going to be way up on all of the models and years listed, but they are harder to find. Something to think about though, realizing that the US isn't even the biggest market for most of these cars/years. Interesting point on the Miata's price point. Wonder what the rest of the NC's production #'s are?

MG Bryan wrote: To most people, cars are not far removed from a toaster or dishwasher.

Especially not JoeyM.

alfadriver wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: I don't understand why sports cars don't sell. I mean no one wakes up in the morning dreaming of owning a Camry.

I think you overestimate the number of people who get up dreaming of driving in the first place.

I know all my friends talk about wanting sports cars (or hot hatches or sport sedans) and they aren't car people (they are engineers though). And most everyone I have talked remembers that fun car they owned over all the boring ones.

Javelin wrote:

The answer here is actually a little obvious, in my opinion. The Miata is a roadster only car. For many people a sports car remains a daily driver and they need to be able to bring the kids to school, go shopping, live in snow states, etc so a roadster just isn't practical. Also look at the sales numbers for the 2+2 Z's. The more practical it is, the better it will sell. .That's why I think the BRZ/FRS will do so well

And there's your answer. That's why camrys sell 3:1 (or whatever) over miatas, or anything that's 2door. No matter what people WANT, they buy what is practical at the price point they can afford. Some of us are willing to sacrifice for a sportscar, most aren't. Not having to get out of the car to let the kids out of the back seat trumps being able to take a curve 10mph faster.

I'm assuming that you want a car that costs roughtly what a normal 4 door sedan would- about $30k. That would be low cost.

Not sure how you do the math where 40k units makes much money at $30k, unless it shares a LOT of stuff with cars you make in 500k-1M a year.

93EXCivic wrote:

alfadriver wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: I don't understand why sports cars don't sell. I mean no one wakes up in the morning dreaming of owning a Camry.

I think you overestimate the number of people who get up dreaming of driving in the first place.

I know all my friends talk about wanting sports cars (or hot hatches or sport sedans) and they aren't car people (they are engineers though). And most everyone I have talked remembers that fun car they owned over all the boring ones.

People like to talk. Based on what actually sells, it's just that. When push comes to shove, not all that many people are willing to give up practicality for fun. Or at least to the degree a sports car makes you do that.

Plenty of people will buy an impractical car, the marketers just have to convince them it will make them cool.

alfadriver wrote:

93EXCivic wrote:

alfadriver wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: I don't understand why sports cars don't sell. I mean no one wakes up in the morning dreaming of owning a Camry.

I think you overestimate the number of people who get up dreaming of driving in the first place.

I know all my friends talk about wanting sports cars (or hot hatches or sport sedans) and they aren't car people (they are engineers though). And most everyone I have talked remembers that fun car they owned over all the boring ones.

People like to talk. Based on what actually sells, it's just that. When push comes to shove, not all that many people are willing to give up practicality for fun. Or at least to the degree a sports car makes you do that.

One of them just bought a Scion tC and another is looking for an MR-S.

If cheap sports cars sold (aka: are profitable), they'ed make them. The car companies aren't in some global conspiracy to deny you cars.

You honestly think that in a word where car companies fight for tenths of a percent, there aren't people trying every permutation possible?