Cheapest road racing transmission to live behind a 550 HP 383?

Trying to get my NASCAR road race car to the track early next year.  I've got the engine build going and now I need to figure out the transmission.  I've got a GM world class T5 transmission in my attic that I was considering but I'm have doubts about it handling the power.

Jericho and any other $2k+ options are out of my price range.  I've been looking into Muncie and T-10 four speed transmissions, but I'm new to that game and could use some suggestions.

Any thoughts?  Hopefully something I can pick up used that won't blow up :)

You are going to pay $1000 for a used bellhousing and either a Muncie or T-10.  The prices are crazy because of the restoration value.  You might find a CL bargain, but if it’s no good, you may not know it until it’s installed.  I’ve gotten lucky with a Muncie, but I still paid $750 off CL and still needed to source a bellhousing, flywheel, pressure plate and clutch.  It adds up fast for reliability at that power level.  You should also index the bellhousing.

LT1 era T56? 

Daylan C said:

LT1 era T56? 

prices are going up because to make it an LS t56 all you need is a front plate, bell housing and a input shaft

My boss recently turned down 1200 for his Muncie, they are way up from what I can tell. Lt1 era t56 or building the t5 seem to be the cheapest options 

In reply to MrChaos :

As somebody that's going to need an LS t56 eventually, thanks.

I see a lot of threads on the internet about how much power a transmission can take, but I think most of those are from the perspective of a drag strip where you are shocking the driveline dumping the clutch at 5000 RPM with drag slicks.

In the case of a road race car where you are flooring it but already at a rolling start, I'd suppose the driveline could handle it better.  

In reply to ssanto :

I've been told Camaro-Mustang Challenge guys were still breaking T5s a few years ago. With ~275hp small blocks. 

Semi-built 200-4R?

The only comment I have is the LT1 T56 in the Camaro I rent a seat in for champcar has a hard time keeping together.  It seems to be an issue with either the shift key or retainer ring going into 4th gear.  It's doesn't kill the trans but ends the race.

Maybe a circle track 3 or 4 speed our of the Speedway or Summit catalog with a rear end to match?

I did a fair bit of reading on the T5 before buying my Foxbody and, from what I read, the consensus was that if you hoon around you'll break it. I saw testimonials of breaking them on radials in a parking lot on a stock mustang. I also saw testimonials from drag racers who used them behind 500+hp cars and just didn't beat on the gears. (big grains of salt on both of those, cuz internet) I still bought a Foxbody, took it to a track weekend behind a lightly built-up LY2, and the only problem I have probably isn't due specifically to the T5-ness of the trans. Treat it politely, shift like you know what you're doing, and it should serve you well enough. If you do go the T5 route, I would advise some time spent researching Astro (and the other companies) who sell rebuild kits with tougher gears. You might decide it's too pricey but at least you'll be informed.

T56 and various TKOs will cost you a very pretty penny if you can find them but they're tougher, the TKO variants moreso than the T56.

In reply to ssanto :

Street or race?  
When I ask that I mean is it purely for a race track and never driven on the street?  
If so you can get away with a dog ring transmission.   
A dog ring means it doesn't have syncro's and if you try to shift it gentle you will do a lot of damage to the gears.  
 

You have to shift it without using the clutch. In fact the only time you use the clutch is to get the car rolling. You start it in gear with the clutch pedal in. Then slip it slightly to get the car rolling. Careful those triple disk clutches do not tolerate a lot of heat. 
once rolling never use the clutch again. 
Upshift or down shift it's done with the throttle.  A momentary lift of the throttle and jam the transmission into the next gear. Downshift do the reverse. You step on the gas and jam it down a gear.  

Dog ring transmissions can be bought from Jericho or Saenz. Cheaper than gearboxes with syncros.  Some people just can't get used to shifting without using the clutch and gearboxes like that are useless on the street.  
The advantage of a Saenz is they are a quick gears change.  That is you open the back of the case and slide the gears out. Select which gear set(s) you want to change and slide the new ones back in place. Like a Halibrand quick change rear end. 
plus it's a 5 speed non overdrive.  most 5&6 speed trans missions are 4 speeds and 1 or 2 overdrives.  Great for the street lousy for the race track.
  The Jericho  is only a 4 speed and it takes a decent amount of time to pull one apart and replace the gears.  Definitely not something you do between sessions.  
 

Is there an adapter to run the bmw 420g or Nissan's cd009?

In reply to yupididit :

Will either of those work with a solid axle slip yoke situation?

My experience is that the BMW's are strong but the 1st/2nd gears are too short for most engines.  The CD009 is a beast and will handle the power, it's a 6-speed, weighs about 150lbs and has an integrated bellhousing.  There are kits out there to cut the Nissan bellhousing off and adapt it to other engines, including a Chevy.  If you get a Nissan transmission, check with Z1Motorsports.  You can get them new for under $2k.  If you buy used, make sure it's a CD009, as the earlier versions (CD003/4/5) had issues.

The TKO500/600 will handle the power but it's over your stated budget.  

Astroperformance.com can build a T5 to handle it and weigh less than 100lbs, but it will cost the same or a little more than a TKO

Super T-10

frenchyd said:

In reply to ssanto :

Street or race?  
When I ask that I mean is it purely for a race track and never driven on the street?  
If so you can get away with a dog ring transmission.   
A dog ring means it doesn't have syncro's and if you try to shift it gentle you will do a lot of damage to the gears.  
 

You have to shift it without using the clutch. In fact the only time you use the clutch is to get the car rolling. You start it in gear with the clutch pedal in. Then slip it slightly to get the car rolling. Careful those triple disk clutches do not tolerate a lot of heat. 
once rolling never use the clutch again. 
Upshift or down shift it's done with the throttle.  A momentary lift of the throttle and jam the transmission into the next gear. Downshift do the reverse. You step on the gas and jam it down a gear.  

Dog ring transmissions can be bought from Jericho or Saenz. Cheaper than gearboxes with syncros.  Some people just can't get used to shifting without using the clutch and gearboxes like that are useless on the street.  
The advantage of a Saenz is they are a quick gears change.  That is you open the back of the case and slide the gears out. Select which gear set(s) you want to change and slide the new ones back in place. Like a Halibrand quick change rear end. 
plus it's a 5 speed non overdrive.  most 5&6 speed trans missions are 4 speeds and 1 or 2 overdrives.  Great for the street lousy for the race track.
  The Jericho  is only a 4 speed and it takes a decent amount of time to pull one apart and replace the gears.  Definitely not something you do between sessions.  
 

Yes, this is track only.

I'd love to get a dog ring transmission, but I can't find one cheaply.  They all seem to be up in the $3-4k range where I can pick up a Muncie for under $1000.

In reply to Daylan C :

I know for a fact that a CD009 will. I have a slip yoke and an LS attached to one in my garage.

You already have a T5 so I would consider building it up.  It definitely would need building up for that kind of power - Terry Fair used a stock T5 behind a 4.8 LS with a cam on his challenge car and he shattered third gear twice.  If you can get the tougher parts for it and rebuild it yourself that might be the best budget option.  550hp is a lot though, that's going to be tough on a transmission.

Why not a 3 speed? Dirt cheap, generally bombproof, and in a high horse roadrace car, gearing can be changed easily enough to make 2/3 all you ever use. 

hell, 50s/60s nascar ran three speeds, and lots of guys around me still do for circle track.

3rd gear is 1:1, just like 4th in a 4/5/6 speed.

RacetruckRon said:

In reply to Daylan C :

I know for a fact that a CD009 will. I have a slip yoke and an LS attached to one in my garage.

Ok cool. I legitimately didn't know. I know some newer rwd transmissions that were only in IRS cars use a companion flange situation that doesn't agree with a driveshaft that has to move.

djsilver said:

My experience is that the BMW's are strong but the 1st/2nd gears are too short for most engines. 

The 5 speed ZF is a 4.20 first and the 6 speed getrag is a 4.23 first. It's a good speed for idleing around the paddock. Not that a road race car ever sees power being put down in 1st anyways. The awkward part for me is that 5th is drive so you'd likely be making the 4->5 shift a lot. I love the feel of the shifter but not sure I'd want to be making that 4->5 too often on track. I've read the BMW Big Torque Club guys saying the ZF is good to about 750-800 ft*lbs. Heck, Maximum PSI runs 8s with the stock trans.

ssanto said:

frenchyd said:

In reply to ssanto :

Street or race?  
When I ask that I mean is it purely for a race track and never driven on the street?  
If so you can get away with a dog ring transmission.   
A dog ring means it doesn't have syncro's and if you try to shift it gentle you will do a lot of damage to the gears.  
 

You have to shift it without using the clutch. In fact the only time you use the clutch is to get the car rolling. You start it in gear with the clutch pedal in. Then slip it slightly to get the car rolling. Careful those triple disk clutches do not tolerate a lot of heat. 
once rolling never use the clutch again. 
Upshift or down shift it's done with the throttle.  A momentary lift of the throttle and jam the transmission into the next gear. Downshift do the reverse. You step on the gas and jam it down a gear.  

Dog ring transmissions can be bought from Jericho or Saenz. Cheaper than gearboxes with syncros.  Some people just can't get used to shifting without using the clutch and gearboxes like that are useless on the street.  
The advantage of a Saenz is they are a quick gears change.  That is you open the back of the case and slide the gears out. Select which gear set(s) you want to change and slide the new ones back in place. Like a Halibrand quick change rear end. 
plus it's a 5 speed non overdrive.  most 5&6 speed trans missions are 4 speeds and 1 or 2 overdrives.  Great for the street lousy for the race track.
  The Jericho  is only a 4 speed and it takes a decent amount of time to pull one apart and replace the gears.  Definitely not something you do between sessions.  
 

 

Yes, this is track only.

I'd love to get a dog ring transmission, but I can't find one cheaply.  They all seem to be up in the $3-4k range where I can pick up a Muncie for under $1000.

 

 

 

Watch the sites especially around Christmas. While Daddy paid a lot for one, with Christmas coming he may be willing to bite the bullet.  
You'll love a dog ring for racing. Your shifts get lightening fast.  And once you get the feel the gears seem to last forever.  
A $1000 Muncie is not capable of dealing with 550 horsepower or anywhere near it, even the vaunted M22 rock crusher 
I'm gentle on gearboxes  but one season behind a mild 350 Chevy engine in a Corvette and I was milling out the housing to accept spacer bushings to get one more event out of it.  That's the weakness of Muncies'. Look for center punch dimples around the front bearings. That's the death warning the case is opened up and they tried to get one more race out of that case.   The case will heat up and try to push gearsets apart. I've seen all sorts of attempts at curing the problem. Oil radiators for the transmission where  you pick up oil from the bottom , run it through a big cooler and dump it back on top seems to work the best.  Don't over cool the oil because then the bearings take a beating and you're using a fuel pump to move the heated oil.  

T5s shred 3rd because 3rd is in the middle of the shaft so when the case flexes 3rd experiences it the worst. Drag racers feel it the most, from what I read, when they start slamming gears like a frat boy slams WhiteClaws

This is a minor peeve and admittedly not that helpful to point out, but transmissions don't care about hp, they care about torque. Some of them care about rpm in terms of clutch weight and being able to shift the thing, but mostly they just care about torque.