Check my brain on 2003 ram starting issue

Picking up an 03 1500 4.7 ram tonight for runaround duty and probably to flip after i get my use from it.

when cold turn key and starter starts turning then stops.  Does it again, again, then 4th or so key hit it starts like normal.  I have only shut it off and tried to restart warm 3 times and every time the starter functions as normal.  I just put a new battery in a few minutes ago because owner let it sit from September to now and the battery drained and is flat dead.  Seller is a friend and he said the development with starting is new.

They have been starting it with a jump box to move around the lot, possible cause or nothing to worry about?

I don't think it's the starter, as it sounds normal when it's engaged.  It feels more like power drops off to starter and it stops versus an "oh E36 M3 the starter is dying" and my brain says change the starter relay.  Aside of this everything seems in order with the truck.  
 

what sayeth the hive other than "Patrick you know better than to buy more chrysler products"

Sounds like starter solenoid has some corrosion or stickiness from sitting and once warm moves freely. 

Can you have some tap on the solenoid while you try to start it cold?

otherwise I'd start looking at connections to see if any look crusty 

Just to confirm, the starter stops turning entirely and doesn't just disengage the flywheel, right? 

Sounds like a flaky neutral safety switch or starter relay 

I'm with Duster on this. See if it starts when you shift it into neutral.

Or just LS swap it...

In reply to rslifkin :

Correct.

To be clear, it's still doing this after you replaced the battery, right? Or does "a few minutes ago" mean you haven't found out yet? My favorite idea is that the battery fixed it because it was marginal enough it needed to be warmed a little to have cranking capacity; hence working on the 4th try or when warm. Otherwise...

This is super weird. The sequence is awkward:

• If it's cold, it tries and then stops trying
• If it's warm, it works fine.
• Once it stops being cold because of repeated tries, it works.

It's weird that being cold doesn't stop it from working, but keeps it from working *long enough*.

I'm having trouble making sense of it unless there's an unhappy spot where the cold means cranking effort is high and *something* dodgy in the wiring (solenoid? relay?) overheats and breaks the circuit before start... but after enough cranking to thaw things, it starts before the dodgy thing overheats?

You mentioned it feels like "power drops off to the starter." As in it slows down before stopping? How abruptly? I feel like more abrupt suggests a contactor, less abrupt suggests battery or starter, just on the grounds that the latter two are going to be trying but losing capacity/efficiency as they heat up, while a heat-failing coil in a relay will be "on" 'til it's "off."

QuasiMofo (John Brown) said:

Or just LS swap it...

No.  My parents already want to give me whatever i tell them to for it in the fall

In reply to Jesse Ransom :

Still happening with new battery, and the starter stops spinning abruptly as if you let off the key.  It's unlike anything I've ever experienced 

At 180k, what about a bad ignition switch, tumbler?  The drain could then be that the truck is not really turning off.  Turning the key doesn't send a clear enough power source to really start the truck, at least not on the first try.    Possible?  

Any issues like this?  https://www.700r4transmissionhq.com/dodge-ram-bad-ignition-switch-symptoms/

In reply to John Welsh :

Oo, I like that. Also wonder whether that's loggable on an '03? This is probably too old for that to be running through anything computerized I suppose... Or maybe a test light on the wiring upstream of the relay/solenoid? Just trying to figure out whether we can see whether it's the "control" side or the "power" side that's knocking off early...

Beyond that, I'd be wondering what relays/solenoids can be replaced cheaply/easily... If there's a relay in the kick panel that's $5 and 5 minutes...

Could just be a failing starter.

i'd throw a starter at it before i started chasing ignition switch / tumbler issues.

especially since i chased ignition switch issues on my sonoma before replacing the dying starter.

It is worth the 10 minutes to clean up the battery cables and grounds and take a good look at the connections just to rule out something really simple like that causing the problems 

In reply to Sonic :

battery side good, redid all that today because nothing was tight enough.  I'm bringing it home in an hour or so, so we can start really diagnosing

Obviously it started immediately when i got there so no chance to swap relays or anything.

it quit on the way home coming off a stop sign and again at the next.  I'm wondering if things are related(ignition switch) or separate but equally annoying.  The first time it quit it took several attempts, it would fire and as soon as i let the key return to run it would quit.  Did not stumble like it was trying to fire as it quit, it felt like turning off the key
 

also should note that anytime that happened i had to turn key back to off before it would crank again.

Is that new enough that the key is just a request to the ECU for the starter to crank, and not a direct connection to the relay/solenoid?

Im thinking if it is the first (request to ECU), then they may be related to some flaking signal (crank position, cam position?

My understanding is that when the ECU controls the starter that when the ECU thinks the engine has started it will cut power to the starter and potentially require the key to be cycled off before retrying the starter. 

Edit: this is me thinking out loud and is not based on specific model experience. 

In reply to Patrick :

Your problems might be consistent with the link I posted above. 

Check for corrosion on the main power cable from battery to starter. 

They do corrode and they cause all sorts of issues. Especially on dodges and jeeps, for some reason. Had it on my Honda too, though.

In reply to No Time :

I was wondering about this. I think it's too old for that, but if it were the case we might also be able to log some aspect.

Really sounds like a bad ignition switch to me. 

In reply to dculberson :

Yeah the truck has the first 3 symptoms of what John posted.  There's also enough stuff on ram specific sites via searching that it seems common.  Lots of people complaining of random stalling and not starting being fixed with a new switch.
 

I've ordered a switch because it was $25 and looks relatively easy.  

Just for my reference, have noticed when you turn the key to the off position you can't pull it out with rotating it a little forward toward run, which seems like another thing pointing at ignition switch as the culprit

Ignition switch has fixed the starter not spinning sometimes issue, but the stalling is still here.  I'm just sitting here and it's running fine.  I can slowly run it up in rpm fine.  50% of the time a hard stab and release on the gas makes it quit.  it takes a couple tries for it to fire after this.  No CEL.  
 

I am going to take a video and upload it.  
 

runs smoothly otherwise.  
 

just thought to smell the gas because the paperwork shows he towed the truck in may, and there's 1/4 tank showing so it's probably 7 month old fuel.  Opened the fuel door and yes it smells old but also no fuel cap.   He said he drove it from the shop to the house(about 15 miles) with no issue within the last few months then the truck sat there for sale for a while with no real interest.  They're old school and sit stuff out with a for sale sign vs listing online so I understand that.  

leaning toward water in the fuel or old gas or combo of both?  
 

edit for video

more edit:  i will probably grab some dry gas or heet or whatever you want to call it and a fresh jug of fuel, and new gas cap is coming tomorrow.  It's all stuff that needs addressed anyway so may as well start there.  Any other insight is appreciated, do not want a solid deal to turn money pit.  It's going to be cold this weekend so not sure how much will get done besides that stuff