Chevy Cruze diesel!

crankwalk wrote: There are many VW tdi's with 300- 400k + miles on them and hopefully the Cruze can pull that off too.

Most of the ones I've seen have the typical white smoke at idle because of poor compression before they hit 200k. Usually the same people who stretch out their oil change intervals.

Even then, before they get to that point, VW in that timeframe are not known for the best electronics. There may be some confirmation bias relative to TDIs because TDIs have more value, so they are worth repairing, whereas a GL that needs a $800 framus module just goes to the junkyard.

ransom wrote: Is it just my skewed perspective because they're what I want, or do wagons make up the largest group of VW TDIs? If it's not just me, why are Chevy and Mazda giving it a miss, especially when they already have that body style elsewhere?

Correct. This is a niche category that does not follow industry guidelines. Product planners that don't read between the lines will miss this. Yes stickshift take rate industry wide is crazy low, but on TDI's it's something like HALF of the cars sold. Similarly, wagons are hated and not bought... unless it's a TDI... where again the Jetta WAGON nearly outsells the sedan. It's an anomoly that goofy diesel heads actually choose different market selections than what the mass populous does when car buying. This isn't just internet fanboism's pleading for stick wagons... it's what actually sells in this space.

ProDarwin wrote: Diesel is about 118% the price of gas here. The Diesel Cruze gets about 118% the mileage of the ECO. Meaning, it would never pay for itself.

I'll admit I'm a diesel fan. BUT here's what most outsider's miss. That's not an apples to apples comparison. The Diesel Cruze comes standard as a fairly loaded car. The ECO is a lightweight stripper. The diesel will absolutely drive better. The beauty of a diesel is on the highway, where it rewards addiitonal flogging with seemingly unphased mpg's. Push a gas model into higher and higher mph, and watch the mpg's fall off.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that driving a diesel is a premium experience. People choose a V6 car over the 4-banger all the time for the greater torque and power (premium experience). With a diesel, you get that same torque experience, with 4-banger (or better) efficiency. It's a no-lose compromise, not a break even proposition.

I've got 250K on my mk4 TDI (stick hatchback), and I drive it 80mph minimum on the interstate, and always get 45+ mpg's per tank (by actual math... no cluster indications)

In reply to xflowgolf:

The Cruze Diesel spec is second from the top (2LT). Essentially the diesel is a $2405 engine option to the 2LT package.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: I see the connection now. Case and cummins had a partnership around their CDC plant in rocky mount. Case and fiat worked on designing the motor before cummins was involved. Cummins bought the motors and plant from case.

and Fiat owns and does the design for powertrains for Case.

I would rather not have either. The VW cause it is a modern VW and everything will break and the Cruze cause no manual.

xflowgolf wrote: Correct. This is a niche category that does not follow industry guidelines. Product planners that don't read between the lines will miss this. Yes stickshift take rate industry wide is crazy low, but on TDI's it's something like HALF of the cars sold. Similarly, wagons are hated and not bought... unless it's a TDI... where again the Jetta WAGON nearly outsells the sedan. It's an anomoly that goofy diesel heads actually choose different market selections than what the mass populous does when car buying. This isn't just internet fanboism's pleading for stick wagons... it's what actually sells in this space.

The problem that GM may be anticipating is that it's difficult to bust into someone else's niche. It may not make sense even try to appeal to the 80-90% of VW diehards who won't buy a GM no matter what. They are already going to buy VWs no matter what. Who they need to try to sell to are the 10-20% who are just buying the VW because it's a car that they think gets good fuel economy, and the people who want a Diesel midsize car (the Cruze is the same size as a Celebrity save for the 10" of useless extra overhang that the Celebrity had) but won't buy a German car. (Just don't tell them that the Cruze is an Opel)

I am thinking that this car will depreciate faster than the VW. Given that I would scarf a used one just to see the "new" GM.

I want something bigger with a diesel. I am seriously thinking about a Passat oil burner

Knurled wrote:

xflowgolf wrote: Correct. This is a niche category that does not follow industry guidelines. Product planners that don't read between the lines will miss this. Yes stickshift take rate industry wide is crazy low, but on TDI's it's something like HALF of the cars sold. Similarly, wagons are hated and not bought... unless it's a TDI... where again the Jetta WAGON nearly outsells the sedan. It's an anomoly that goofy diesel heads actually choose different market selections than what the mass populous does when car buying. This isn't just internet fanboism's pleading for stick wagons... it's what actually sells in this space.

The problem that GM may be anticipating is that it's difficult to bust into someone else's niche. It may not make sense even try to appeal to the 80-90% of VW diehards who won't buy a GM no matter what. They are already going to buy VWs no matter what. Who they need to try to sell to are the 10-20% who are just buying the VW because it's a car that they think gets good fuel economy, and the people who want a Diesel midsize car (the Cruze is the same size as a Celebrity save for the 10" of useless extra overhang that the Celebrity had) but won't buy a German car. (Just don't tell them that the Cruze is an Opel)

I don't disagree on the principle. I guess it just creates a self fulfilling prophecy. While I'm not a huge fan of the Cruze, the lack of stick does in fact rule it out for me when considering a replacement.

I do think however that a lot of VW fans are watching with very curious eyes what Mazda does, and I think they could steal more conquest diesel sales than Chevy from VW.

I'd like to drive one before making assumptions to see how it compares to my VW. However, not offering a stick shift and different body styles will really hurt their sales I feel like. Hats off to Chevy for attempting to capitalize on diesel-powered cars, though. VW has a strong hold on the market right now and it will really be interesting to see how they do once more and more diesel cars are released. The next TDI is rumored to be quite an improvement over the engine currently used.

Flight Service wrote: I am thinking that this car will depreciate faster than the VW. Given that I would scarf a used one just to see the "new" GM. I want something bigger with a diesel. I am seriously thinking about a Passat oil burner

I looked at the Passat, its about the same size as the Mazda 6. So I am waiting till later this year when the D version is out for that. I thought long and hard about a 2005/2006 Mercedes E320CDI also. The 335D is a little too expensive still for me and I also hate it only comes in automatic (then again so does the merc but the BMWer feels more like a drivers car)

You guys act like somebody buying the Cruze diesel was cross-shopping a VW Jetta. Sure, that might happen. But how many other people were visiting the dealer considering ditching their Tahoe or Malibu (or Impreza, Fusion, etc.) to get something smaller that gets better fuel economy. "What, Chevy has a diesel car? 46 mpg on the highway? Wow, that's incredible...let's take it for a test drive!"

I think it's great to see more pretty-good cars with awesome fuel economy. I prefer EVs and hybrids, and I prefer wagons/hatches and manual transmissions...but I'm all for a diverse group of cars getting people to burn less fuel for basic transportation. Some people like sedans. Some people like autos. Many people my age have never, ever driven a diesel vehicle but HAVE driven a hybrid or EV. It's a strange world we live in!

Bryce

Jaynen wrote:

Flight Service wrote: I am thinking that this car will depreciate faster than the VW. Given that I would scarf a used one just to see the "new" GM. I want something bigger with a diesel. I am seriously thinking about a Passat oil burner

I looked at the Passat, its about the same size as the Mazda 6. So I am waiting till later this year when the D version is out for that. I thought long and hard about a 2005/2006 Mercedes E320CDI also. The 335D is a little too expensive still for me and I also hate it only comes in automatic (then again so does the merc but the BMWer feels more like a drivers car)

I haven't cross shopped the Merc, but I have driven the BMW. Rowing your own is simply because you want to. The thing has gobs of torque everywhere.

The downside was the fuel economy was nowhere near what the Passat is getting. If I am going with an oil burner it has to earn it's keep.

The merc with tune at least was still in the 40's highway. I am a typical california hwy driver so I appreciate diesels reasonable fuel numbers even over the legal limit