Chevy Sonic; LTZ or RS? My wife wants a kick ass little run about.

We are looking for a second car for my wife. She'd like something newer (2012 and up) with less than 100K kilometers (preferably under 75K) for under $15K (remember, we're in Toronto). She also has a lead foot (God, I love her) and was excited about the tuning options for the Sonic. We talked about the MINI, a Velostar Turbo, and a few others, but they don't fit the bang per buck of the Chevy (if the Sonic isn't junk).

What do you folks think? What's the difference between the RS and LTZ with the 1.4 and is it worth the difference? Is the car a piece of E36 M3 and we should run screaming? It will be a miracle if we put more than 15K km on it a year. Oh, and it will be chipped and brought to a track day

Thanks

The only major difference between the RS and LTZ was the transmission. Rather than add more power (The biggest complaint on these cars) they instead regeared the transmission for the RS to more performance oriented gearing. Except it doesn't make a noticeable difference in performance and takes a noticeable chunk out of the fuel mileage. It does get rear disc brakes instead of the LTZ-and-lower rear drums though, as well as some Grrrr-look-at-me-I'm-an-angry-car styling bits and nice wheels. I'd suggest sticking with the LTZ and putting a Trifecta tune and exhaust and intake on that instead.

As for the actual cars themselve, I work at a GM dealer and the Sonic is a pretty solid little car. Very few things, if any, go wrong with them. Mostly just front sway bar endlinks, because they are cheesy plastic lumps. GM even had a recall on them at one point. The interior has the cool motorcycle gauge cluster, the shifter and clutch is one of the better ones in the GM inventory and they get solid mileage.

One of the reasons I selected a Sonic is because it's about the last American-made subcompact. Or so I thought. Then the cruise control switch failed, so I bought a new one at the dealer. "Made in China", said the sticker.

So if you want a car that is made of Chinese components, but assembled in America, Sonic might be a choice.

Otherwise, it's a decent car, feels bigger on the inside than it looks on the outside, and goes, stops, and turns fine. Pocket rocket? No. Hot hatch? No. Can be had cheap because it depreciates faster than a 1989 Dodge Omni? Yes.

EvanR wrote: So if you want a car that is made of Chinese components, but *assembled* in America, Sonic might be a choice.

Actually the window sticker says they are 48% South Korean parts

In reply to NickD:

its korean gm aka daewoo

Having reaped the massive rewards that have been associated with selling parts for Aveo's, which the Sonic is in all but name, I cannot recommend this car to my fellow GRMers. The Daewoo GM's are still, to this day, under-engineered, poor build quality lumps that will fail in frustrating, and sometimes catastrophic, ways. All of the interior switchgear, window motor/regulators, radiators, timing chains, wheel bearings, engine sensors, hell even the gas pedal breaks! Literally everything else in the segment is both a better car and a better deal.

If you were buying new, I'd suggest cross shopping the Forte 5 SX, but they haven't really hit the used market in any sort of volume that would meet your price range.

I drove a new Sonic RS and would describe it as "a cool little car". I liked the seats, which I understand are unique to the RS. The 1.4T never behaves like it has a turbo, which I'm sure a tune would take care of.

Javelin wrote: Having reaped the *massive* rewards that have been associated with selling parts for Aveo's, which the Sonic is in all but name, I cannot recommend this car to my fellow GRMers. The Daewoo GM's are still, to this day, under-engineered, poor build quality lumps that *will* fail in frustrating, and sometimes catastrophic, ways. All of the interior switchgear, window motor/regulators, radiators, timing chains, wheel bearings, engine sensors, hell even the gas pedal breaks! Literally everything else in the segment is both a better car and a better deal.

Interesting. I work for GM and have rarely seen any issues with these, even on cars at 100K miles plus. Saw one engine and manual transmission in the same care but the owner hammered on it and never did the maintenance

Not quite as sporty out of the box, but what about a Fit or a Mazda 2? You could probably find either in your price range and both have a good following of more GRM type of people. Especially the Mazda 2 around here. You don't have the stoplight dragstrip power, but they check the other boxes for fun to drive.

-Rob

Javelin wrote: Having reaped the *massive* rewards that have been associated with selling parts for Aveo's, which the Sonic is in all but name...

Since you're talking "Aveo" parts in the USA, presumably you mean the first gen...Which to the best of my knowledge is completely unrelated to the second gen platform that the Sonic is.

We rented a Sonic hatchback last year and I (mostly) quite liked it. It was solid, drove like a real car, and Got The Job Done. If you and your stuff fit, you'll be happy. The rear window sucks dirt onto itself like crazy, so the rear wiper is the hardest-working little guy in show business. I'd say "Keep your washer fluid topped up," but you're in Toronto so that's a given.

Do NOT get one of the interiors with a contrasting colour all over the doors and dash: the colour reflects into the windshield and there's exactly nothing you can do about it. Driving with that was like wearing tinted glasses all day, and it about drove me nuts. Whoever signed off on this idea should be slapped.

Driven5 wrote:

Javelin wrote: Having reaped the *massive* rewards that have been associated with selling parts for Aveo's, which the Sonic is in all but name...

Since you're talking "Aveo" parts in the USA, presumably you mean the first gen...Which to the best of my knowledge is completely unrelated to the second gen platform that the Sonic is.

You are correct, the Aveo as we know it is unrelated to the Aveo/Sonic, but it's plagued by nearly all of the same issues. Same engineers, same quality control, same production plant, same results. The engine is still an iron block lump from mid-90's Opel.

I just bought a brand new 2015 ltz for $15,500. I looked at the RTZ, but didn't feel that the disk brakes were worth the much worse fuel economy. So far I love it for my 130 miles a day commute. Of course, it replaced a 2000 buick so it is a pretty low bar to clear.

Isn't a 2012 regal gs manual around this price point?

I've got 85,xxx miles on my 2014 Cruze with the 1.4t / 6 speed. Only issue with the motor has been a failed pcv (common issue) which was fixed under warranty.

The six speed is decent if not a little notchy. Doesnt like to be shifted quickly into second.

How does the hive feel about the Fiesta?

nderwater wrote: How does the hive feel about the Fiesta?

The Fiesta ST is a fantastic little car. If you're looking at the regular Fiesta I think the Mazda2 is a better Fiesta than the Fiesta is.

MrChaos wrote: In reply to NickD: its korean gm aka daewoo

Our sure about this? The first gen was (aveo) but this generation is Australian right?

Wiki says this:

"Development of the second-generation Aveo was led by GM Korea, with Opel engineers leading platform development along with significant input from engineers from Australia's Holden and Chevrolet of the United States."

But don't judge the Koreans from past failures in quality. They learn fast (witness the meteoric rise of Kia/Hyundai) and produce massive improvements in quality and design with every generation. Our two Sedonas have been paragons of reliability.

That said, I love my little Fiesta ST, but I don't think I would consider the lower trim levels.

chandlerGTi wrote:

MrChaos wrote: In reply to NickD: its korean gm aka daewoo

Our sure about this? The first gen was (aveo) but this generation is Australian right?

Nope. Definitely Korean. Factory window sticker even has the breakdown and it says 48% North Korean components, 52% North American components, assembled in North America

In reply to NickD:

North Korean components!? God damn, GM is making some weird global alliances these days!

mazdeuce wrote:

nderwater wrote: How does the hive feel about the Fiesta?

The Fiesta ST is a fantastic little car. If you're looking at the regular Fiesta I think the Mazda2 is a better Fiesta than the Fiesta is.

The Mazda2 is the better car to drive but the Fiesta handily beats it at just about everything else. You can't get a Mazda2 with leather, sunroof, infotainment, two engine choices, etc.

Also, they are the same platform. IIRC the Ford Racing catalog suspension for the Fiesta is the same stuff that goes on the 2, at least according to the interwebs.

I've come close to buying a Sonic at least 2 or 3 times...even put a deposit on one and then backed out last minute. If you're buying in the "lightly used" category, I think the Sonic is a fantastic buy. It's a bit on the slow side, but a tune will make it better. I liked the handling, the way it drove, it gets great MPG, and for a budget economy car, the interior isn't half bad. I'd pick the LTZ over the RS simply for the fuel mileage, but that's just me (though I like the RS look better).

pointofdeparture wrote:

mazdeuce wrote:

nderwater wrote: How does the hive feel about the Fiesta?

The Fiesta ST is a fantastic little car. If you're looking at the regular Fiesta I think the Mazda2 is a better Fiesta than the Fiesta is.

The Mazda2 is the better car to drive but the Fiesta handily beats it at just about everything else. You can't get a Mazda2 with leather, sunroof, infotainment, two engine choices, etc. Also, they are the same platform. IIRC the Ford Racing catalog suspension for the Fiesta is the same stuff that goes on the 2, at least according to the interwebs.

most of the suspension of the mazda2 is stamped fomoco. Also I love my 1.0 fiesta is averages 41mpg.

Thanks for the input. The Mazda 2 would be very high on the list except for the rust issues. Living in Ontario, I can't bring myself to buy a Mazda as it's very common to see cars that are 4 years old with rust starting.

We're going to drive an orange LTZ this weekend. Will report back.