Chevy's 235 and Toyota's F/2F/3F

So my buddy has picked up an old '59 Apache that's been sitting for the past forever. It's got a rapped out 235 in the engine bay and a rusted solid 235 sitting in the bed. All in all seems like a truck worth saving, but the mechanicals are pretty sketchy. I'm going to help him get it going again.

I've got a wild hare up my ass that we should ditch the 235's entirely and give the old truck an injection of Landcruiser straight six. I know the Toyota F engine's lower end is based on the 235 and I'm pretty sure the head is based on another similar Chevy sixer.

Both engines are considered reliable by their proponents, though my trust leans more toward Toyota than GM (a lot more). The Toyota appears to come with more compression, more power, a better oiling system, and six whole intake ports (exciting!).

Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone has any direct experience with both these engines. I don't currently have my eyes or hands on an old Landcruiser engine. I'm wondering about the differences in the motor mounts and the bell housing (I'm wondering exactly how much of a "copy" the Toyota engine is). If the/a Chevy transmission can't be used with the Toyota engine, that will make things a lot harder. I don't believe Toyota ever made a 2wd Landcruiser.

IIRC the trans and transfer case are copies of Dana parts too.

Someone told me that the two engines are so close that gaskets interchange, the main differences being metric vs. standard threads. But tales also get told.

http://www.speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=189435

just get a 292 and be done with it.

Similar but not the same.

I do know for a fact that a Toyota distributor can be put in a 235 block and it will run well until the cam gear eats the distributor gear.

I love the 235 and 261 but I cannot fathom a reason to stuff an equally old and slow engine design from another manufacturer back into that hole once you've pulled the 235 out.

The good news is, the truck is a '59 so it should have the motor mounts on the side of the block instead of mounting on the bellhousing and under the timing cover.

The Chevy V8 would have been an option by 1959. This means that the truck already has V8 mounts on the frame.

This means you can swap in a dime-a-dozen Chevy V8 or later I6 and it will all bolt up.

The '59 may be the same wheelbase as our '57 shop truck at work, if it is, you can use our recipe:

'57 Chevy 235 with iron bellhousing. T5 from a Chevy S-10, drill the mounting ears out a little bigger so you can use the old Warner bolts to bolt it to the bellhousing. You may have to trim about 1/2 from the snout on the front bearing support so it doesn't foul the clutch and throwout bearing.

Use the S-10 clutch disc with the 235 flywheel and pressure plate. The driveshaft you will need is from a 1990's Astrovan, it is the correct length and will fit the T5 trans at one end and has the proper U-joint yoke at the other.

If you want to use a different powerplant, just substitute a new I6 of SBC for the old 235, everything else in the T5/astro driveshaft recipe will fit up the same if you use a newer Chevy bellhousing with the SBC pattern which also bolts to the 230/250/292 engine family.

If you use a 292, be aware that one motor mount on one side is not in the same spot as the 230 and 250 so you will have to move the frame mount on one side.

Gotta love Chevy interchangeability.

P.S. If you wanna get silly, I've always wondered about swapping in an Atlas I6

If I was going silly, I'd want a 2JZ (with a 50 shot of NAS ) Think of the shock value.

Hate to say it but this sounds like a drop a cheap smog era SBC in it type situation.

In reply to Trans_Maro:

You are a wealth of information.

I may be leaning vortec 4.3.

In reply to RoughandReady:

Thanks, I do this sort of thing for a living.

I think Kenny hit the nail on the head.

Here's what I would do if it were me:

Use the T5 combo I listed above to give you an overdrive which will let you keep the low gears in the rear end and still drive it at reasonable highway speeds.

Find a cheap 305 from the junkyard, don't get spendy by buying a 283, 327 or 350, you don't want to go down the rabbit hole of needing to upgrade brakes, suspension and axles to handle a bunch more power.

Paint the 305 RED, or chevy orange. SBC's were red from the factory in 1956. Dress it up with finned aluminum, corvette valvecovers, rams-horn manifolds and old style brackets painted black to make it look like a 265 or 283.

Black oxide allen fasteners look great on an engine done this way.

Hide a Quadrajet under a big, old oil-bath aircleaner that you've converted to a paper element so you get decent power and some fuel economy. Or, if you're good with carburetors, run a tri-power setup. All the tri-power parts are available in reproduction and it looks the business on a vintage engine.

Make your own long shift handle for the T5 or re-use the truck one.

Looking like this, hardly anyone will know what you've done.

If the box is rotten, go with a wood flatbed stakeside with chain sides.

The factory drum brakes will handle a mild setup like this if you freshen them up and the stock suspension should be fine.

why would anyone pick a 4.3 when a 350 will get the same mpg and have more pulling power, fun factor, etc...

who cares if you open the hood and shock people with something that isn't a small block. shock them with cleanliness, or not putting on ebay "fabricated" aluminum valve covers like every other guy who thinks he has a racecar because v8

Trans_Maro wrote: Paint the 305 RED, or chevy orange. SBC's were red from the factory in 1956. Dress it up with finned aluminum, corvette valvecovers, rams-horn manifolds and old style brackets painted black to make it look like a 256 or 283.

I get the painting it red thing, but 305 heads look nothing like '56 heads. Modern SBC heads are all chunky and full of casting flash, while old SBC heads have no accessory mounting holes and are smooth castings. Plus I don't think Corvette valve covers will bolt on, the bolt pattern is different.

This is strong in my mind because I did an engine swap in an old Ford sedan (old engine was a hurt late-model 350) and the guy had us put on old Corvette heads because they looked period-correct for a 60s SBC swap into a 30s Ford. All well and good but I had to re-engineer all of the accessories because all of his old accessories needed to attach to the heads. And crappy aftermarket accessory brakcets are crappy. For the alternator bracket, I ended up putting a dab of weld near the head of the pivot bolt to turn it into a cam bolt so I could adjust the alternator's angle so the belt would line up correctly. I'm still kinda proud of that 5 minute fix.

"Remember, small block Chevys are easy to work on and everything interchanges..."

In reply to Knurled:

The heads do have the accessory holes but most people wouldn't even have a clue.

The later aluminum corvette valvecovers will bolt up. The early ones have the staggered bolt pattern but the later ones are the conventional pattern.

An early intake manifold with the oil filler helps with the looks.

In reply to Knurled:

Everything you're talking about is fine enough details that the only people who will notice will be the sort of people who can respect simply putting an old ratty work truck back on the road and making at least a halfass effort to make it look decent.