Chicago sues Kia & Hyundai. (you can't make this stuff up)

Blames them for the rash of car thefts, crashes, etc.   

City of Chicago :: City Of Chicago Files Suit Against Automakers Kia And Hyundai

I'm more surprised that they didn't sue the car owners too.

i don't understand why this is a problem... Kia/Hyundai failed to provide a reasonable security solution which led to specific models being targeted enabling people to do things they may not otherwise do.  

when a company has a design flaw, knows about it, fails to fix it, and that failure decreases human safety; it's our governments responsibility to be our voice and penalize that behavior...  IMHO, this happened and Chicago is acting accordingly.  

Honestly, I'm surprised Hyundai/Kia aren't facing more lawsuits for their negligence over this.

I agree.  It's an invitation to steal.

I mean, I don't steal things from others, but for those who choose to, it shouldn't be as easy as all that.

The city officials only have two choices:

1. Blame the criminals committing the crimes but they would then have to admit the city has failed miserably.

2. Blame the manufacturer as that takes the heat of the city's complete impotence. 

There are plenty of easy to steal cars out there but this is typical big city government thinking.

The real solution is to create a small task force; this would cost less than all the damage that's being incurred. It would also cost less than the lawsuit.

In reply to Tom1200 :

All of this. Chicago is a failed city with massive crime problems that they do not want to address. It's always easier to shift the blame to someone else. They still blame Indiana for all of their murders. 

Let's extend out the logic of this being a good thing.

Automobile companies cause car theft.

Bartenders cause drunk driving.

Forks cause obesity.

Handguns cause murder.

Basically a utilitarian way of looking at the world plus excusing the real culprits.

Tom1200 said:

The city officials only have two choices...

A textbook "false dilemma" logical fallacy.

Attempting to hold one party accountable for their bad behavior in no way precludes one from attempting to hold any other party accountable for their bad behavior as well. And any attempt to hold larger more directly identifiable parties accountable is always going to happen faster and more visibly than any other attempts to hold smaller less directly identifiable parties accountable.

bobzilla said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

All of this. Chicago is a failed city with massive crime problems that they do not want to address. It's always easier to shift the blame to someone else. They still blame Indiana for all of their murders. 

not sure I agree with this.  

Chicago is 42nd city in the country per capita for crime.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

They are also 55th in terms of vehicle theft (same source).  

Conversely they are the 10th most visited city in the US.  https://www.worldatlas.com/cities/america-s-10-most-visited-cities.html

Illinois isn't perfect, and Chicago certainly has its share of problems.  To say it's a failed city because it is trying to make things better by holding others accountable is insulting. 

Should they be doing more? yes of course 

Should they look internally at other policies that are causing crime? of course

Does that mean that they shouldn't pursue holding Kia/Hyundai accountable? no.  Most criminal law discusses motive, means, and opportunity.  Kia/Hyundai increased opportunity by making vehicles that were easy to exploit.   

Seems like they should be suing Dodge since the top two most stolen cars for the past several years are both Chargers. 

This sounds a lot like election-year grandstanding. Someone figured out how to get their name and picture in the papers and they are playing it up for all it's worth. Useless political figures will be useless. 

ClearWaterMS said:

Does that mean that they shouldn't pursue holding Kia/Hyundai accountable? no.  Most criminal law discusses motive, means, and opportunity.  Kia/Hyundai increased opportunity by making vehicles that were easy to exploit.   

 

So retail stores leave the merchandise unsecured and in plain sight...............no one is arguing that shoplifting is their fault.

Most cars will allow you to drive drunk; there's a simple low cost fix for this. Car makers fault...........no.

Most cars will go 100mph..........down a residential street. Car makers fault? No

Someone choose to exploit the car's weakness. Suing the car maker won't fix this.

For the record I've been to Chicago several times and I think it's a great city but this is typical big city thinking. 

ClearWaterMS said:

bobzilla said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

All of this. Chicago is a failed city with massive crime problems that they do not want to address. It's always easier to shift the blame to someone else. They still blame Indiana for all of their murders. 

Does that mean that they shouldn't pursue holding Kia/Hyundai accountable? no.  Most criminal law discusses motive, means, and opportunity.  Kia/Hyundai increased opportunity by making vehicles that were easy to exploit.   

 

This, in a nutshell, is the great divide in the USA between  collective rights utilitarians and individual rights personal responsibility.    

You are basically saying that a brick on the ground in front of a store window, that is used to break that window, is an opportunity the bricklayer put in place for a criminal to exploit because "he should have known" it could happen. 

"If weren't for logical fallaices, I wouldn't have no logic at all."

In reply to Tom1200 :

Yeah, not a fan. I am 2-ish hours away and maybe it's the chicago crime spreading down 65 tainting my thought or maybe the massive disparity of incomes and crime rates throughout the city. Then again, I'm not a big city fan at all. Been to plenty and I would never call Chicago a top one to visit. Outside of decent pies and a few museums the rest is just bleh. Lacks the culture of New York and the weather benefits of LA. tolerable weather for 3-4 months of the year, the rest is either blazing hot or bitter cold. 

jharry3 said:

Let's extend out the logic of this being a good thing.

Automobile companies cause car theft.

Bartenders cause drunk driving.

Forks cause obesity.

Handguns cause murder.

Lest we forget those tramps in their skimpy clothing.

they might as well have left piles of ski masks and hi-points on the street. If in the year 2023 you make a car that can be stolen in 30 seconds by a 15 year old with a USB cord, that's negligent enough t0 be held liable in my opinion

I'm honestly surprised that people would blame the manufacturer for car thefts. Did those cars have a flaw that made it easier, yes. But the thieves are still to blame. JFC. 

As I start reading this thread...

How is this any different than Ford Super Duty thefts?  While I lived in Houston, I had three separate friends have their Super Duty stolen, one of them multiple times.  They could be stolen with a sawzsall blade even after installing Jimmi Jammers.

In reply to gixxeropa :

They were building to a price point, apparently a point people wanted. Most of these cars would have had remotes with alarms when sold new. People lose those and the car has no alarm in place then. So the manufacturer should know that people are cheap, lose remotes, not replace them and the cars get stolen. 

You know, most GM vehicles from around 1990 and older takes just as long to steal. There were tens of millions of those on the road and stolen for decades. No one sued them. 

ClearWaterMS said:

bobzilla said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

All of this. Chicago is a failed city with massive crime problems that they do not want to address. It's always easier to shift the blame to someone else. They still blame Indiana for all of their murders. 

not sure I agree with this.  

Chicago is 42nd city in the country per capita for crime.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_crime_rate

They are also 55th in terms of vehicle theft (same source).  

Conversely they are the 10th most visited city in the US.  https://www.worldatlas.com/cities/america-s-10-most-visited-cities.html

Illinois isn't perfect, and Chicago certainly has its share of problems.  To say it's a failed city because it is trying to make things better by holding others accountable is insulting. 

Should they be doing more? yes of course 

Should they look internally at other policies that are causing crime? of course

Does that mean that they shouldn't pursue holding Kia/Hyundai accountable? no.  Most criminal law discusses motive, means, and opportunity.  Kia/Hyundai increased opportunity by making vehicles that were easy to exploit.   

 

Not to knock on Chicago but the statistics are somewhat skewed by the fact that most of the statistical sh-thole communities in the country are suburbs of larger cities. I'd like to see stats more along the line of "metro areas".

I could see my home town of Oakland following suit. The city is in a spiral largely caused by ranked-choice voting and the fact that a large percentage of the voters elect those who best pander to them, not those who have the best short-and-long range  policies and plans.

Hey everybody!

Hey everybody !

I found the outrage of the week.

In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :

Don't most voters, vote who panders to them?