I'm torn a bit on this one. Seems a bit like an extension of the "attractive nuisance" doctrine. As for older cars being just as easy to steal, time (and standards) march on. Also, I can't really discuss other causes/solutions without getting political. Regarding Dodge Charger theft, isn't that because the key programming software got out into the wild, so a key fob could be programmed based on the VIN?
z31maniac said:In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :
Don't most voters, vote who panders to them?
Then I guess I'm a minority voter. I look for the candidate with the best plan for the county/city/state/country and not my personal interests.
ibtl
Minneapolis has looked into filing a lawsuit against them but I don't think anything has actually happened yet.
There is a class action lawsuit settlement that is to benefit the car owners:
Korean automakers Hyundai and Kia have agreed to pay $200 million to settle a class-action lawsuit from owners who had their vehicles stolen in a nationwide rash of car thefts.
The lawsuit, filed last August, alleged that Kia and Hyundai sold car models from 2011 to 2022 that did not include immobilizers —a standard feature that prevents the engine from starting unless the key is present. Word of the missing immobilizers sparked a TikTok trend called the "Kia Challenge," in which thieves stole millions Kia and Hyundai vehicles often within 90 seconds, attorneys representing the owners said in a statement.
Up to $145 million from the settlement funds will be used to reimburse owners who had their vehicles stolen or damaged, the attorneys said Thursday.
"Our goal in finalizing this settlement was to leave no one in the dark," Steve Berman of Seattle firm Hagens Berman said in a statement. "The owners of these cars have experienced enough upset, and we worked to achieve a settlement that covers many types of losses — from those who were lucky enough to have never had their theft-prone car stolen, to those whose stolen cars were totaled completely due to Hyundai and Kia's negligence."
The whole TikTok thing is the problem. I don't know how many high speed collisions there have been around here with underage kids joyriding in stolen Kias, causing injuries and deaths to innocent people. Now, if there was a simple solution for getting kids to stop stealing cars for fun...
In reply to stuart in mn :
But they're not suing TikTok.
There is a huge difference between 'causing' a crime and negligence. Legal accountability for negligence is also not mutually exclusive from personal responsibility.
z31maniac said:In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :
Don't most voters, vote who panders to them?
To an extent. But poor communities are more likely to make poor choices. Ours certainly has. Case in point - there's a whole movement to not throw criminals in jail because going to jail perpetuates the downward cycle of the perpetrator. So Oakland and San Francisco police are completely demoralized, as the people that they arrest will end up back on the street in hours. Oakland's new (elected) district attorney laid off 6 assistant DAs within hours of taking office.
Driven5 said:There is a huge difference between 'causing' a crime and negligence. Legal accountability for negligence is also not mutually exclusive from personal responsibility.
In what way was Kia/Hyundai negligent?
The car came with a key. Said criminals had to break into the car in the first place.
Someone can pick the lock to your front door of your brand new home.............does that make the home builder negligent? No.
In reply to Tom1200 :
As far as I can find, they were the only manufacturer during that time not to at least include an immobilizer on each and every car they sold. As such a reasonable person could consider that a minimum expectation of security against vehicle theft, not just break-in.
The mechanical deadbolt has long been an industry standard for a reasonable person to consider the minimum expectation of security on new home construction, with electronic deadbolts now being a popular upgrade. If the mechanical locks knowingly installed by just one specific home builder were ones that a reasonable person would have no way of knowing isn't a deadbolt, but was ultimately as useless against even common household objects as the 'lock' on the generic interior door knob that my children can bypass while I'm trying to go to the bathroom in 30 seconds of attempted peace and quiet. On top of the repeated thefts they're enduring, now they can't reasonably get insurance to cover their property, and subsequently may not even be able to reasonably sell it either... That's negligence.
Hyundai knows this, and that's why they're trying to settle for hundreds of millions of dollars.
Toyman! said:
This sounds a lot like election-year grandstanding. Someone figured out how to get their name and picture in the papers and they are playing it up for all it's worth. Useless political figures will be useless.
Except the election was over months ago.
And the incumbent lost.
This is the Chicago we're taking about, right?
Chicago news crew robbed while reporting on robberies
Yea, suing the car manufacturers is going to help crime for sure.
In reply to Driven5 :
I still don't find that negligent; crap standards maybe but not negligent.
Note we own a Santa Fe.
Tom1200 said:ClearWaterMS said:Does that mean that they shouldn't pursue holding Kia/Hyundai accountable? no. Most criminal law discusses motive, means, and opportunity. Kia/Hyundai increased opportunity by making vehicles that were easy to exploit.
So retail stores leave the merchandise unsecured and in plain sight...............no one is arguing that shoplifting is their fault.
That depends. People don't get their lives and property risked from someone pocketing a Zagnut bar. On the other hand, if you leave firearms out unsecured, and they get stolen, you are partially liable if they are used in a crime, and IIRC can face prosecution regardless.
Most cars will allow you to drive drunk; there's a simple low cost fix for this. Car makers fault...........no.
Bartenders have been found liable for overserving, though.
Someone choose to exploit the car's weakness. Suing the car maker won't fix this.
The government is stepping in, I think, because the insurance companies have not.
A lot of the antitheft measures in modern cars like sheathed cables for the door locks/handles, and immobilizer systems, are in part because of pressure from the insurance industry. They are the ones who pay when a car is stolen.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
There have been poeple who've been hosptialized and or killed during retail thefts...............one could apply the same logic Chicago is using to those.
In reply to Tom1200 :
In some jurisdictions, you are part of the problem if you try to stop a crime in progress, too.
I don't think anybody is suggesting that the thieves not be prosecuted. But at the same time, how does the city stop it? You can't arrest people precrime. It isn't necessarily a socioeconomic issue, either: when I was growing up, a lot of car thefts were bored rich kids looking for joyrides.
The only person to blame for stealing any product is the thief. It's pretty simple. That's why it's called a crime. You're punishing/blaming the wrong people.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:In reply to Tom1200 :
In some jurisdictions, you are part of the problem if you try to stop a crime in progress, too.
I don't think anybody is suggesting that the thieves not be prosecuted. But at the same time, how does the city stop it? You can't arrest people precrime. It isn't necessarily a socioeconomic issue, either: when I was growing up, a lot of car thefts were bored rich kids looking for joyrides.
The problem in Columbus is the thieves aren't being prosecuted. They are kids that steal the cars to joyride and crash into things. They get arrested and the judge lets them off and they do it again the next week.
Cutting hands off for theft doesn't look so bad any more. As long as we extend it all the way to the top with white collar crime as well.
Annnnnnnnnd floundered.
In reply to EvanB :
I hear from our local pd guys that they have arrested the same guy twice in the same shift. Arrested, booked and released. Most have criminal records that make small books. Sone will commit 8-10 more crimes before their court day and are released immediately every time.
tell me how that helps stop crime?
This reminds me of what happened in Ohio with the electric utility. They bribed some politicians to get a sweat heart law passed. After the politicians were sentenced some lawyers filed a class action suit against the company. The lawyers made millions and I got a $7.85 gift card. We need more lawyers!
:popcorn:
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