Chrysler-Dodge-Jeep-Fiat-Lancia-Alfa Romeo-Ferrari-Maserati-Peugeot-Citroen-Opel...... = One

pointofdeparture said:

I have said it before and I'll say it again, the tie-up makes a lot of sense.

FCA:

• Has a strong presence in commercial/heavy duty globally (Fiat commercial is HUGE in Europe, Ram is pretty big in NA)
• Has a strong presence in the US
• Does not have any modern small car, SUV or EV/hybrid platforms (well, aside from the Pacifica)
• Does not have strong leadership after the death of Sergio

PSA:

• Does not have a strong presence in commercial/heavy duty
• Does not have any presence in the US
• Has numerous modern small car, SUV, and EV/hybrid platforms
• Has strong leadership in the form of Carlos Tavares, who did a phenomenal job of turning Opel/Vauxhall around and making them profitable in record time

Think of it this way: PSA's 2008/3008/5008 SUVs being branded as Dodges and replacing crap like the dead-on-the-vine Journey. Peugeot's EV platforms proliferating. Fiat/Ram commercial products being sold through PSA dealer network. Etc, etc..

They will have some tough questions to answer as far as brand overlap. Lancia will surely be the first to go. Vauxhall is basically redundant and with Brexit all but sure at this point is basically a money pit for PSA. Alfa and Maserati have little reason to exist alongside each other aside from vague notions of brand legacy. The independent existence of Chrysler and Dodge is a giant question mark as well.

Also, few people realize that Fiat is all but dead as a passenger vehicle manufacturer in Europe. Most of their business is commercial these days. So PSA, who has major passenger car volume in Europe, is actually filling a niche quite well in this merger.

I agree that it makes sense for both parties, but I think you're underselling FCA. They currently have very successful small vehicles, they're branded as Jeeps, and are mostly Fiat based. They sell a mild hybrid Ram 1500 and Wrangler here as well as plug in versions of the Compass and Renegade in Europe that are almost certainly on their way to the US within the next two years. Every Jeep model will offer either PHEV or BEV versions by 2022:

https://jalopnik.com/jeep-will-electrify-its-entire-lineup-by-2022-make-on-1840445517

There have been spy shots of a PHEV Wrangler for months that will likely be on sale within 18 months, and the plan to have Maserati transition to their fully electric halo brand has been in place since before the merger talks began. So they've been catching up on the hybrid/EV front recently based on plans made by current and past leadership.

Jeep is the SUV brand (cash cow) of the family. It's massively profitable and has a very strong brand with loyal customers and the general public. I'm not sure bringing over Pugeot's CUV models rebadged as anything but a Jeep makes any sense, and even if you do rebadge them as Jeeps you'd have to avoid overlap with Jeep's already filled out lineup or you just risk harming the golden goose.

iceracer said:

I never could understand the reluctance to work on a"furrin" cars.  Those guys were grease mechanics, not real mechanics.

The pistons went up and down, the valves opened and closed.  The spark plugs sparked.

I can sort of understand the mindset.  Some people are afraid of anything that is different from when they were kids.

I mean, er, not that (okay maybe not JUST that).  You see some funny things on iATN when perusing their forums or their help request digests.  Something I see a lot is people saying things like "The job calls for 6 hours, that's a lot of time to tie up a rack, best to decline the job."  Which is absolutely mind-boggling to me, especially when I've had 300+ billed hours on a car.  Hell, the car I finished today had over 19, on the heels of two vehicles over 7 hours each, and it's only Wednesday.

But that is the mindset a lot of shops have:  Churn work out, bing bang boom, cars in cars out.  No time to sit there and read books and manuals and pull out test equipment, or sit around killing a bay for half a day, when you could be cranking out brake jobs and other low-impact high-return stuff.  If'n it ain't a Chevy or a Ford, we ain't touchin' it.  (This means YOU, Mopar)

Must be nice to be in a market whre you can pick and choose what you work on...

iceracer said:

I never could understand the reluctance to work on a"furrin" cars.  Those guys were grease mechanics, not real mechanics.

I scratch my head at that, and also at the statement that "you can't work on the new ones because everything's all computerized." My experience is that the computers aren't involved in the stuff I can do myself anyway (brakes, starters, etc.), and also that the computerization can be damned helpful in the areas where it does play a role. I mean, I wouldn't have the foggiest idea how to put an old car on "the scope" anyway.

alfadriver said:

iceracer said:

I never could understand the reluctance to work on a"furrin" cars.  Those guys were grease mechanics, not real mechanics.

The pistons went up and down, the valves opened and closed.  The spark plugs sparked.

Back in the day...  the problem I remember my parents having more than once is just the tools.  Metric vs Imperial made a HUGE difference between someone ham fisting a job and one doing their job.

That’s very true too. My father didn’t have any metric tools, nor did my grandfather. I definitely remember a few “WTF?” moments - and the frustration that followed - the first few times I encountered metric fasteners. Hell, I was in high school when GM started transitioning to metric & every car-guy I knew was complaining constantly about it. 

I remember growing up in rural KS in the 90's and somehow I ended up with a Mazda 626 Turbo in my senior year of highschool.  The local Ford dealer would have *nothing* to do with that car and I was told that if a Probe had any drivetrain or suspension issues they would have the car towed 80 miles away to the nearest city with a Mazda dealer for repairs.  I imagine it's a bit better now but not great.

I think that Alfa and Maserati could live in this new conglomeration but it'll be some badge and trim engineering that seperates them at times.  To me Alfa is not supposed to be the luxury line.  That's Maserati territory.  I could see Alfa being the most basic with some hot rods, kind of like how we see Dodge in the USA.  Lancia above them with EV's and other 'hi-tech' vehicles where outright performance is not the top goal.  And then Maserati is kind of the best of both marques, with performance and tech with a focus on luxury.  But it would be easy to count Lancia out of this entirely.