1 2
mndsm
mndsm HalfDork
6/29/10 10:42 p.m.

So- ready for another one of my trainwrecks? Cause here we go!

THE BACKSTORY-

I've been bent on LeMons racing since the series was first announced, however many years ago. The costs were prohibitively expensive for me myself and I, and being in a newer relationship, that idea got shelved as I stuffed go fast parts in an ms3 ( And subsequently purchased a MINI Cooper S, for the woman that would be my wife). A few years later... ChumpCar is announced. Very similar... interesting. A little more money is on my side, so I attempt to draft several people into building a car with me. There is some localized interest, but nothing ever became of it. The idea got shuffled to the back burner again, as I got distracted by shiny objects (My wedding though strangely cost less than it will for me to get totally into Chumpcar, sitting on the grid, brand new Nomex and all). About a year and a half later, some friends of mine find out ChumpCar is racing at BIR- which actually makes ChumpCar somewhat practical. They race, and have EPIC amounts of fun. It looks like my kind of epic amounts of fun. Around this time.... several other friends of mine decide that this looks like their kind of fun too.....

THE SEARCH-

With three people on board (Myself, a man we call Picklz, and AJ, whom are all friends from MNMazda) we decide it's time to get down and dirty, and make this happen, right? So we decide in our EXTREME logic, that it's time to go buy a car, and gut it and pay for a roll cage, so we actually do this, instead of sitting on our collective hootuses, as we are wont to do. Thus begins the brainstorming for a vehicle. I immediately voted Ford Escort, since they're about 1$/6 pack of them around here, and it's basically a Mazda Protege.We're MNMazda after all, we should have a Mazda, right? A few Escorts are found, none appealing enough to pursue any further. Various Toyotas are called on, none terribly interesting. A Celica GT-S with a 5sgt-e is offered to us via some MNMazda friends... but appears to be out of our price range. The search continues. Miata is discussed, and then dismissed, as MN based Miatas are worth more than unicorn meat. We finally had a brief discussion- what do we want in a car? It was voted that it should be small, light, reliable (at least in theory) preferrably RWD, and manual. 240's were discussed, but the Drift Tax put them too far out of reach. Next on the list was e30. THIS was actually what we all kind of wanted, what with their reputation in racing, relative ease of repair, and the fact that it met all of the criteria (again, in theory). Several were researched, none came to pass. We also spent our time looking through donation lots, seeing if there were any ailing donated vehicles that we could acquire for our needs, and help the needy at the same time. Philanthropy for personal gains... right? A Volvo 740 turbo wagon is found, but concern for availability of local parts makes it less than ideal. We had also considered Nissan Sentras, as if you did it right, you could get one with an SR20. Those are worth about as much as 240's around here, so no love there. Infiniti G20 was considered, given that we could get them cheap enough. However, every single one we looked at appeared to be about to do a Flintstone. When that happens, that is excessively bad. DSM's were almost immediately thrown out the window, as all I'd want to do is throw 30psi at it, and blow it up. Hondas hold a special place in my heart, right next to the I really hate them vein. No Honda. A similar vote was placed on the Dodge Neon. Me being me, I was reading a lot of the articles on here, and it struck me. P71! Tons of em around, build to be reliable, and who doesn't want to race around in a cop car! Again, several located on the CL. Several calls. The brilliant idea is discussed and subsequently voted on, that we need to have a light bar for it. A light bar is located. And then....................................... no P71. For whatever reason, we never got calls on any of these vehicles. (I suspect it's our combined mastery of the English language) We're back at square 0. Interest is starting to wane, as the grand scheme of impulse buying a race car is rapidly passing, as we're actually having to do research, and make more than one call. There would be no diamond in the rough here. We go back to the Protege, as they seem to be getting more to our price range. As we're looking for cheap Proteges, we stumble upon.... a Celica. Celicas are pretty cool, and this one is a GT-S slantback.... also cool. Same body as the Toyota rally car from like 1990. Further research reveals..... that this is the SAME Celica that has been offered to us earlier. And it was on CL. No sooner than we found it on CL, than the woman who owns it popped online, and insisted we buy it from her, so she could save on tax paperwork from having to donate it. So we arrange to meet at their place after work (we're all friends, and I actually know this car already, so I'm basically along to act as intermediary between the people that know each other, and the people that don't). A precursory inspection of said Celica reveals that this is a car for us. Discussions ensue, and a deal is reached for the Celica. 500$ and me painting Pikachu on the car, somewhere (she's a big fan of the Pokemon, and when we get a car that cheap, we consider that a sponsorship lol). We have a ChumpCar!

The Car- as stated, Celica GT-S. 5 speed manual, with the worlds longest throw. 5s-GTE engine. No idea what year the car is... will find out soon enough. It's the more desirable hatchback, as opposed to that notchback nonsense Toyota tried. Body wise... fairly sound. Clearcoat is gone from like 85 percent of the body, and the paint has oxidized to a nice shade of pink. Rockers by the rear quarters are all but gone. Right rear caliper is seized... no idea why. Can't really inspect that right now. I'll explain momentarily. Car fully wired for high end sound, has nice pioneer deck and a pile of speakers. Has a small battery drain issue, that is likely related to the stereo, which is to be sold. Tires... who knows. They won't be on it when it crosses the grid. Amazingly, other than the drain, the electrical is in really good shape. No birds nests' of fail. Front struts are shot, new ones are included with the car.

The best part?

I already broke it. Didn't even leave the driveway. (The woman we bought it from is a friend of mine, as is her husband, and we ended up hiring him as a driver too) We decided we were going to try and unberkeley the caliper on the spot, and drive it home. It's still even got good tabs! SWEET. As I was attempting to loosen the lugs, I snapped off TWO of the remaining 4 studs. Guess we need new ones of those.

What will follow?

Pics, build stories, swearing, a team name (Sparkle Pony Sunshine is sadly, NOT the winner), and other assorted hijinks, and possibly advice, as I learn more about this car.

mndsm
mndsm HalfDork
6/30/10 7:53 a.m.

Here's a couple pics, hotlinked for fun.....

Also, it's a 1990. Apparently.

Buzz Killington
Buzz Killington HalfDork
6/30/10 7:57 a.m.

looks perfect!

John Brown
John Brown GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
6/30/10 8:06 a.m.

Looks like Frightning McQueer with it's pink paint ;)

hobiercr
hobiercr GRM+ Memberand Reader
6/30/10 8:35 a.m.

Funny, we also JUST bought a 1994 Celica GT for our Lemons/Chumpcar this Saturday after a VERY similar search/back history story. Ours is also red with faded paint and has been sitting for some time with the driver's window down and an undiagnosed oil leak. When we got the car there was no oil on the dipstick and no battery so a bit of a pig-in-a-poke but hey, the price was right.

Mon night we got a battery and oil and while she'll crank and fire on starter fluid she does not seem to be getting fuel. Ordered the factory shop manual set yesterday to begin chasing the dragon.

Good luck with your '90 Celica. Can't wait to see your progress.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
6/30/10 8:43 a.m.

Not a 5SGTE. That would be a motor Toyota never built, unless someone took a 5S block and put a 3SGE head on it and boosted it with a turbo. It is probably a 7AFE or maybe a 5SFE.

mndsm
mndsm HalfDork
6/30/10 8:59 a.m.

Hm. Maybe I had my nonclementure incorrect. I know it's a twincan- so I'm thinking 5SFE. Thanks for the correction. Definitely not a 7afe.... I woulda known that right away, as I had a habit of popping those in my Corolla.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
6/30/10 9:02 a.m.

It's a 5sfe. ST18x chassis never came with any A-series motor. 7afe was in 6th gen ST trims, 4afe was in 5th gen ST trims, but that was AT180 chassis.

Nice score, those corner lights are HIDEOUS.

If you want to fix the world's longest throw, swap out for a 92-93 GT/GTS shifter assembly. MUCH shorter.

Good news that it's a GTS. You can cram some ridiculously huge tire under that thing. I have a narrowbody GT, and i've got 245/45-16s on all four corners. Not unheard of to get 275s under all 4 corners of a GTS like you've got.

Bad news: It's a GTS. The GT was ALWAYS faster, due to being lighter. And that notchback that you hate? It's the best non-turbo Celica you could get. The chassis is WAYYYYYY stiffer. The hatchback looks cool, but it makes for floppyness compared to the coupe. That said, it's still pretty stiff, all things considering.

My ideal 5th gen Celica is a 1993 GT Coupe with no sunroof. Had one. Rusted to death, and still got $1500 out of when i sold it.

What else are you wanting to do to it? I don't know much about chumpcar. You want more power? You want it to handle? Lay it on me, i've spent years around these things. (Check out my garage for an overview of my current 92 GT.)

Oh, want to sell any parts off of it? I'd be interested in the bumper turn signals, and maybe some interior parts depending on options.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
6/30/10 9:06 a.m.
mndsm wrote: Hm. Maybe I had my nonclementure incorrect. I know it's a twincan- so I'm thinking 5SFE. Thanks for the correction. Definitely not a 7afe.... I woulda known that right away, as I had a habit of popping those in my Corolla.

Twin cam is a term i would use loosely. Yes, it has two cams. No, they aren't independent. It's a slave cam setup.

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess SuperDork
6/30/10 9:11 a.m.

"Scissor Cam" or "Scissor drive" or something Scissor I think is the term used. Lemme think... The exhaust is driven off a gear on the intake, right? I think the gears are between #1 and #2 set of cam lobes.

5SFE is a good engine. BUT, be sure to replace the $5 O-ring behind the oil pump. Takes an extra 10 minutes (if you're slow) at timing belt time.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
6/30/10 9:18 a.m.
Dr. Hess wrote: "Scissor Cam" or "Scissor drive" or something Scissor I think is the term used. Lemme think... The exhaust is driven off a gear on the intake, right? I think the gears are between #1 and #2 set of cam lobes. 5SFE is a good engine. BUT, be sure to replace the $5 O-ring behind the oil pump. Takes an extra 10 minutes (if you're slow) at timing belt time.

Yep, you would be correct.

The 5sfe isn't bad i guess. The 90-91 feels like a turd, the 92-93 feels ok. There were cam and tuning changes between the revisions. It's only SUPPOSED to be a 5hp difference, but it feels like an easy 20hp difference on the butt dyno.

bequietanddrive
bequietanddrive New Reader
6/30/10 9:27 a.m.

Had a 93 Celica GT coupe. Sold it for not enough money. Wish I could get it back all the time...

mndsm
mndsm HalfDork
6/30/10 9:45 a.m.
93celicaGT2 wrote: It's a 5sfe. ST18x chassis never came with any A-series motor. 7afe was in 6th gen ST trims, 4afe was in 5th gen ST trims, but that was AT180 chassis. Nice score, those corner lights are HIDEOUS. If you want to fix the world's longest throw, swap out for a 92-93 GT/GTS shifter assembly. MUCH shorter. Good news that it's a GTS. You can cram some ridiculously huge tire under that thing. I have a narrowbody GT, and i've got 245/45-16s on all four corners. Not unheard of to get 275s under all 4 corners of a GTS like you've got. Bad news: It's a GTS. The GT was ALWAYS faster, due to being lighter. And that notchback that you hate? It's the best non-turbo Celica you could get. The chassis is WAYYYYYY stiffer. The hatchback looks cool, but it makes for floppyness compared to the coupe. That said, it's still pretty stiff, all things considering. My ideal 5th gen Celica is a 1993 GT Coupe with no sunroof. Had one. Rusted to death, and still got $1500 out of when i sold it. What else are you wanting to do to it? I don't know much about chumpcar. You want more power? You want it to handle? Lay it on me, i've spent years around these things. (Check out my garage for an overview of my current 92 GT.) Oh, want to sell any parts off of it? I'd be interested in the bumper turn signals, and maybe some interior parts depending on options.

We'll be stripping it over the next few weeks/ months. First order of business is to unfreeze the right rear caliper, and get it rolling so we can move the damn thing. Chumpcar is mainly about reliability, and being cheap. Think of it as IRL vs. CART. Chumpcar vs. Lemons. Chumpcar is just closer to us. I'm sure we can sell you parts at a very competetive price, if'n you're interested. And I appreciate the offer of tech, I only know Toyotas in two trims. Anything a 4ag fits into, and ae101 chassis corollas. Celicas are new to me.

John Brown
John Brown GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
6/30/10 10:16 a.m.

I have set a 4AG next to me in a MR2 and that has the same size front seat area as a Celica so you SHOULD know everything you need to know!

mndsm
mndsm HalfDork
6/30/10 11:34 a.m.

Good enough for me. Question for all the cheap ones out there.. anyone know of any super sekrit oddball wheels that fit this pig? Lookin for about a 15x8, so I can get a 245 under it. I know there's piles of a/m wheels for it, but I don't want new, since I'm probably going to wreck them anyhow.

Buzz Killington
Buzz Killington HalfDork
6/30/10 11:47 a.m.

FWIW, we haven't "wrecked" any wheels yet through well more than a dozen races our team has done (among several cars). cosmetically they are nothing to write home about, but they haven't suffered any cracks, bends, etc. you're shooting high with 15x8s, especially b/c you'll likely need more than one set. but there are plenty of used 15x7s out there for cheap. you could also look into a set of steel Diamond wheels...pretty sure that's the cheapest way you're going to get into a set of 15x8s.

BTW, i should have said earlier...welcome to crapcan racing. it's one of the most fun things you can do with a car.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
6/30/10 12:14 p.m.

Diamond is probably the cheapest way to do it, unless you can get your hands on some used XXR/Sportmax 002s.

For what it's worth, i paid $350 shipped from Japan for my 16x8 Enkei RP01s.

The problem is that it's 5x100, and you're looking at a ~32-38mm offset. Not real easy to find. Although, it's a chumpcar, so you'd probably be ok with hacking a bit more than i was.

Also be aware that there isn't much out there for tires in the diameter you'll need. You might be a little better off in race car form with 15s than i am with my 16s. I have my choice of slicks, RA1s, or Fuzions. The Falken/Hankook offerings have gone away.

mndsm
mndsm HalfDork
6/30/10 12:25 p.m.

Yeah, we were considering Diamond, for sure. I wouldn't mind having a set, or several of those anyhow... just because they look cool. I think Rota actually makes some stuff that's the right size for what we're after. I know I'm shooting high with a 15x8, but I'm the type that will automatically fill a car full of tire if I get the chance.

Buzz Killington
Buzz Killington HalfDork
6/30/10 12:30 p.m.

as am i, but also keep in mind that this is endurance racing, so max G's might not work to your benefit. more grip = more stress on old suspension bits, on hubs, bearings, etc. the goal is 1. reliable; 2. fast, in that order.

on the "fast" note...that might be a lot of shoe for a 5SFE to carry around. and it's a lot of rubber to buy.

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
6/30/10 12:40 p.m.
Buzz Killington wrote: as am i, but also keep in mind that this is endurance racing, so max G's might not work to your benefit. more grip = more stress on old suspension bits, on hubs, bearings, etc. the goal is 1. reliable; 2. fast, in that order. on the "fast" note...that might be a lot of shoe for a 5SFE to carry around. and it's a lot of rubber to buy.

Max Gs should be alright on these cars, they're insanely overbuilt in almost every regard. Bushings probably the only major weak point.

Stock should be 215/50-15 on a GTS. Stock on my GT was 205/55-15. Running 245/45-16 on it has slowed it down a little bit, but once it's moving, it's not a problem. 5sfe is a pretty torquey motor, it doesn't care much.

mndsm
mndsm HalfDork
6/30/10 9:14 p.m.

So, we've run into a problem. We cannot figure out what the hell to name the poor thing.

John Brown
John Brown GRM+ Memberand SuperDork
7/1/10 6:13 a.m.

I only see one viable suggestion ;)

93celicaGT2
93celicaGT2 SuperDork
7/1/10 7:56 a.m.

I'd say "Smellica" but that's what i named mine.

Name it Chickaboo or something equally ermm... "fruity."

mndsm
mndsm HalfDork
7/1/10 8:22 a.m.

Hehehehe, It may actually end up Ratica at this point.... we found a pretty sweet lookin boso-style 240 online, and 2 of the 3 of us agree that it should look like that.

Onto business. Brakes. How good are the factory binders on this thing? Chumpcar has the 2x rule, so I'm wondering if upgrading to MKIII Supra brakes would be a viable option. I figure we could make mounting brackets easily enough (Or have them made, our cage guy is the mad scientist of machining) and that would theoretically allow us to run bigger calipers/rotors/pads. Don't want to overheat the poor little things that came with the car if I don't have to.

Another question I have, what were the factory wheels on the gt-s? Those fall under the 2x rule too. Ours came with steelies and caps, but something tells me the OEM wheels were those trick 5 star wheels. I'm trying to sort out what upgrades we CAN do, before we tear the thing apart completely, so we don't have a rotting hulk, and no direction.

4Msfam
4Msfam New Reader
7/1/10 4:12 p.m.

Just wondering... are either the GT or GTS interference engines? Found a couple around here with "possibly broken timing belts".. how terminal (or not) is it? Marc

1 2

You'll need to log in to post.

Our Preferred Partners
FXdBDUToFQoV7RxINZXiq16m3ZpzDRzZ9MjsH48lLs1hBfYdZgI0OeXQBbCSk901