In reply to ProDarwin:
I never paid attention to the bolt pattern and props on pointing out the LNF. I didn't know what engine saab was using later on. The LSJ ecotec is a saab engine though for sure.....just with a twin screw feeding it.
In reply to ProDarwin:
I never paid attention to the bolt pattern and props on pointing out the LNF. I didn't know what engine saab was using later on. The LSJ ecotec is a saab engine though for sure.....just with a twin screw feeding it.
Swank Force One wrote:Bobzilla wrote: decade old? No. The last one in the shop was an 08. That's 6 years old.Ah ok. I think i'll steer away from saabs if i can't replace the scratched shifter console with a brand new part from GM.
Whatever. Try to help, get told to GFY. Normal day.
Bobzilla wrote:Swank Force One wrote:Whatever. Try to help, get told to GFY. Normal day.Bobzilla wrote: decade old? No. The last one in the shop was an 08. That's 6 years old.Ah ok. I think i'll steer away from saabs if i can't replace the scratched shifter console with a brand new part from GM.
LOL, just simple teasing and gentle chiding about your target audience. I'll give you a hug if you'd like.
My larger point about Saabs is that I'm surprised they get such little consideration from budget-minded guys like us. There is a really solid platform in the 9-3SS if you can get past the little trim crap and stuff like that. If you are buying a car at a dealer for your wife, sure there are better options with problems that will annoy her less, but for compact luxury cars this side of $5k they are a screaming deal.
Swank Force One wrote:Bobzilla wrote:LOL, just simple teasing and gentle chiding about your target audience. I'll give you a hug if you'd like.Swank Force One wrote:Whatever. Try to help, get told to GFY. Normal day.Bobzilla wrote: decade old? No. The last one in the shop was an 08. That's 6 years old.Ah ok. I think i'll steer away from saabs if i can't replace the scratched shifter console with a brand new part from GM.
What I want is you to come over saturday and put this trans back in dad's truck
In all fairness, there probably are some parts hard to get. For example, for a Saturn S-car, I found out you can't but the fuel lines or emergency brake cables anymore (and aftermarket e-brake cables don't actually work).
The latter part was a problem when trying to get through NC inspection, but I managed to get a set from the dealer. Luckily there are a gazillion of these in junkyards as well. The same is not true for the Saab.
regarding saabs.. to be comparable, we should be talking about 5-year old cars (or newer) only.
a decade old Saab falls in an entirely different comparison than the original question at hand.
The 2.0T Cobalt SS didn't become available until late '08, and as noted, is generally still a current and supported drivetrain for aftermarket tuning across multiple platforms.
The concept of the "half priced Saab" from my quick search seems entirely untrue in comparison to a same year Cobalt SS Turbo sedan. The cheapest manual trans '09 or newer Saab 9-3 with less than 65K on the clock NATIONWIDE on autotrader.com is listed at $12,900 (and most are listed at $14K-$16K)
I bought a new 2010 Coupe, one of the last ones made. There was a big rebate. I wanted something cheap, fun and quick and thought I didn't care that it didn't have the Quaife LSD. I think about 50% of the cars had that option. Then, some of my Miata buddies took me 300 miles West to Hallett, where I raced bikes about 30 years ago, and I liked it and started going back. I believe I've now run six track days in it, some of them blistering hot. 22,000 total miles and no problem whatever.
The stock suspension is good but the stuff developed for the car by Powell Racing in Canada is better. Powell Springs, Koni Yellows and a big rear bar made the car rotate much better and the rear oozes around predictibly off-throttle. You can sort of "back it in" as the dirt-bikers say. I don't think you could spin it with the handbrake, but it will turn in nicely now and the ride is a tiny bit better than stock, which was quite firm. The brakes (Brembo fronts) are terrific with track pads. There are only two places at Hallett where you really need 2nd gear and I can't seem to learn to heel-toe at maximum braking, so I just leave it in 3rd the whole lap and let the turbo lean on the gears. Uh, gear. PR is 1:33.8 on Direzzas.
They do NOT come with Recaros but the stock seats are very supportive. I got an entry-level Sparco driver's seat and it really isn't much of an improvement.
I've looked into buying a Quaife but apparently the installation is a major project, so I haven't pulled the trigger. That's one excuse I use for leaving it in 3rd. 2nd gear up out of the "Bitch" at Hallett had smoke coming in the windows. Neither have I sprung for the factory (or an aftermarket) tune. I'm an old guy and don't hoon on the street and just decided I'd make do with 260 hp. The power delivery is "like water out of a hose," very smooth with no steps or kicks. It's deceptive. I'm just touching redline in 3rd at the end of Hallett's short, front straight for an indicated 104. It gets there pretty quickly.
It's a very enjoyable DD if you like this sort of thing. I'm a happy camper.
ProDarwin wrote: In all fairness, there probably are some parts hard to get. For example, for a Saturn S-car, I found out you can't but the fuel lines or emergency brake cables anymore (and aftermarket e-brake cables don't actually work). The latter part was a problem when trying to get through NC inspection, but I managed to get a set from the dealer. Luckily there are a gazillion of these in junkyards as well. The same is not true for the Saab.
I ran into that with my redline.....the factory redline specific body parts were not easy to find.
ProDarwin wrote: ying as E36 M3 bolt-pattern. There are ways to convert it to 5x114 I believe though (GM did this on factory race cars)
Should be a bolt-n-go but practically speaking, what difference does it make? Worst case, you use Subaru wheels and wheel spacers because IIRC Subarus have 10mm more offset.
For what it's worth, I interviewed John "Heinrocket" Heinricy shortly after the turbo version came out. He called it the "best handling front wheel drive car" he'd ever driven.
Swank Force One wrote:yamaha wrote: In reply to SlickDizzy: Headlights.....granted my experience is mid-00 range 9-3. They were retarded expensive for anything not "used" You don't have that problem with the cobalt. In reply to Joe Gearin: I'll contend they are still a very good handling chassis today, even with the dated rear beam suspension instead of IRS.How many Saab headlights can i buy for $8k?
Possibly none at all. Dead company, ya know.
The Turbo (and Super Charged) Cobalts are much, much nicer to drive than the standard cars. Beyond more power and better suspension, the transmission and shifter are different and make a world of difference.
In the standard car, the shifter is quite low and angles back too far in 2nd and 4th gear. The clutch is lazy as hell and I find myself grinding 4th gear nearly every time. The position of the center armrest make this even worse. Drove several cars and they all had the same issue.
In the Turbo/Supercharged cars, the shifter is nearly straight up, is taller and has shorter throws. The clutch works better and the whole arrangement is simply more user friendly.
The one thing that makes no sense to me is the handbrake. In both cars, you have to lift the armrest out of the way to use the handbrake! This is soooo dumb....
In reply to Gearheadotaku:
And that would be why Saturn didn't fit an armrest in my redline. Come to think of it, did any ion redlines have armrests?
I don't think you could spin it with the handbrake
Challenge accepted. I've never been more confident...
yamaha wrote: In reply to Gearheadotaku: And that would be why Saturn didn't fit an armrest in my redline. Come to think of it, did any ion redlines have armrests?
Not sure how the Ion's were made, but the armrest was an option, maybe even an accessory on the Cobalt and G5.
This one (supercharged) beat a bunch of skylines and stuff back when it was new at the time attack super lap battle at buttonwillow. I'd buy about 1000 other cars before a cobalt but at least here's proof that it's a capable platform if it's the way you decide to go.
The skyline that it beat…
Vigo wrote:I don't think you could spin it with the handbrakeChallenge accepted. I've never been more confident...
If you get the saab version the parking brake probly works on the front tires or some weird e36m3.
chuckles wrote: I bought a new 2010 Coupe, one of the last ones made. There was a big rebate. I wanted something cheap, fun and quick and thought I didn't care that it didn't have the Quaife LSD. I think about 50% of the cars had that option. Then, some of my Miata buddies took me 300 miles West to Hallett, where I raced bikes about 30 years ago, and I liked it and started going back. I believe I've now run six track days in it, some of them blistering hot. 22,000 total miles and no problem whatever. The stock suspension is good but the stuff developed for the car by Powell Racing in Canada is better. Powell Springs, Koni Yellows and a big rear bar made the car rotate much better and the rear oozes around predictibly off-throttle. You can sort of "back it in" as the dirt-bikers say. I don't think you could spin it with the handbrake, but it will turn in nicely now and the ride is a tiny bit better than stock, which was quite firm. The brakes (Brembo fronts) are terrific with track pads. There are only two places at Hallett where you really need 2nd gear and I can't seem to learn to heel-toe at maximum braking, so I just leave it in 3rd the whole lap and let the turbo lean on the gears. Uh, gear. PR is 1:33.8 on Direzzas. They do NOT come with Recaros but the stock seats are very supportive. I got an entry-level Sparco driver's seat and it really isn't much of an improvement. I've looked into buying a Quaife but apparently the installation is a major project, so I haven't pulled the trigger. That's one excuse I use for leaving it in 3rd. 2nd gear up out of the "Bitch" at Hallett had smoke coming in the windows. Neither have I sprung for the factory (or an aftermarket) tune. I'm an old guy and don't hoon on the street and just decided I'd make do with 260 hp. The power delivery is "like water out of a hose," very smooth with no steps or kicks. It's deceptive. I'm just touching redline in 3rd at the end of Hallett's short, front straight for an indicated 104. It gets there pretty quickly. It's a very enjoyable DD if you like this sort of thing. I'm a happy camper.
Thank you for the real world experience. I'm scheduled to test drive an SS Sedan this weekend.
Knurled wrote:ProDarwin wrote: ying as E36 M3 bolt-pattern. There are ways to convert it to 5x114 I believe though (GM did this on factory race cars)Should be a bolt-n-go but practically speaking, what difference does it make? Worst case, you use Subaru wheels and wheel spacers because IIRC Subarus have 10mm more offset.
I did a quick search, and some 17x9s did come up in 5x110... but I know many people had trouble finding anything other than 18-20" wheels in that bolt pattern. No wide/light/motorsports oriented sizes - especially for use with a 25" tire.
One of my friends has a blast with his in STX. He runs 17x9 Team Dynamics wheels wrapped in Rivals which are less than half done after 20 events last year. We call it "Mexiflush." Other than a rear bar, otherwise stock suspension (for now, mwahhahha).
In reply to ProDarwin:
Yea, I hate that the cobalt version was saddled with 18" wheels instead of the more awesome 17's the IRL got.
Ugh, I keep looking at Turbo Sedan SS's.
They're creeping down in to the $10-$12K range for reasonably low mileage examples.
Not too many out there, but their expected depreciation sure did happen. These seem like even more of a bargain now as a consumable DD that also goes like a rocket with handling to boot.
In reply to carbon:
Didn't GM rent the track for several days beforehand for testing?
xflowgolf wrote: Ugh, I keep looking at Turbo Sedan SS's. They're creeping down in to the $10-$12K range for reasonably low mileage examples. Not too many out there, but their expected depreciation sure did happen. These seem like even more of a bargain now as a consumable DD that also goes like a rocket with handling to boot.
Definitely a bargain, they're more durable than the SRT4 as well.
You'll need to log in to post.
