Looks like Hoondavan beat me to it, but I came here to say Kia stinger may be worth a look. It's bigger, like a Kia panamera, but rwd and a pretty stout TT v6 backed by an 8spd auto. Dunno about reliability.
There's also v6 camrys now that people swear are sporty.
Olemiss, I have thought about a Macan before, they seem pretty reliable, but I always worry if something goes wrong, it will be expensive. Technically the Macan can tow the Miata on my trailer, but towing a corvette or similar would be pretty close to the limit. Cayenne would be better if I was looking at sporty SUVs so I can replace the Yukon.
bbbbRASS, I remember seeing it before, but I thought you had sold it. Unfortunately I'm probably a 10 hour drive away.
GTB, kinda forgot about the Focus RS after all the head gasket issues, but those seem fixed. They have held their value surprisingly well, 2016 with 85k mi is $25k at the near by dealer. Would be fun to test drive. But otherwise they are pretty rare.
Hoondavan, I definitely like the idea of the e90. Do they have any old car issues? And have you driven any of the newer enthusiast cars as a comparison? If I did get a F30, I would go for one with the B58, not the N20 or B48. They seem more reliable. I don't need a wagon, but they are definitely appealing...wanna sell your e91? Also I'm definitely thinking about a Stinger. I really wanted my dad to get one in 2018 when they came out, but he got the new accord 2.0T instead. Only negative is the hyundai sourced 8 speed.
How about a Cadillac ATS or the Hyundai G..70 I think is rwd and optional manual transmission
sevenracer said:There's also v6 camrys now that people swear are sporty.
Do you think this is a NASCAR thing? I do see a lot of the really pricey Camry TRDs around.
ATS could be interesting, only the 2.0T and ATS-V have the manual available. The 2.0T doesn't seem like a great and reliable engine. The V6 is more reliable but not available with a manual. V6 Premium RWD can get a LSD and track performance package + Mag ride, which I would guess is the most desired non-V configuration. I tried looking for one but didn't see anything close by. The ATS-V can have a manual, so that's an option, but they are pretty difficult to find, especially as the 4 door.
I did think about a G70, the 2.0T is a decent engine with the manual, but the manual is extremely rare. I only see 5 available nationwide and none within say 200 miles.
Seems quite a few of the cars that seem like good options are incredibly rare compared to the readily available hot hatches.
I think I have definitely eliminated a couple cars off my list, but have added more than I started with. I will take the TSX/TL off since I doubt I will find one to buy. Also will take the WRX off since no one including me is excited about it. I'll take the Golf R off since it seems like it isn't any more fun to drive than the GTI, just faster. Last I will take of the Fiesta ST and Focus ST since they seem like the will be a bit unrefined due to their economy car roots.
In reply to da_johnny_boy :
There's a distinct lack of S4 on your list.
In reply to da_johnny_boy :
Per the E90...anything plastic in the cooling system is probably the biggest "old car" issue. Also, water intrusion from clogged sunroof drains can cause issues. Per selling my E91, I've considered it...but the $$ I'd only sell it for an unreasonable sum at this point ($11k w/fuzzy math?). RWD, sport package, manual trans is pretty rare. It's the only car in my fleet that I'd drive cross country (or cross-state) w/out hesitation. If i did sell it I'd go buy the nicest $4k-$5k E90 I could find.
I did see a Stinger at the last auto-x. It seemed big & a little bit awkward. It was pretty quick though...but something smaller would be more fun/competitive.
In reply to DasAuto :
Not sure what it is exactly since the S4 seems pretty reliable, but I've generally been avoidant of Audi due to their general unreliable vehicles like the all-road, b7 s4, etc. Also, I'm suspicious because they seem pretty cheap. A decent looking 2010 with 112k mi is $13.5k. A similar 2010 M3 is around $25-35k, and the M3 is probably less reliable by far.
Hoondavan, that's mostly what I was expecting with the e90. I did read through roninsoldier's refreshing his 128i, and all that deferred maintenance can add up on that platform. $11k isn't crazy for an e91 based on what I've seen, but I'm definitely looking closer to $5-7k if I got a e90. I really like the e91, but I don't really need the extra space to justify the extra cost. There is a salvage title 08 e91 sport package, rwd, manual with 161k mi listed for $11k on Marketplace, that is a crazy price.
I don't need to autox or track the new daily driver, its just a plus if it a very competitive car in its class. I already take the Miata to the track and the RX7 could go to autox or the track after I fix a couple issues. I'm thinking to run the RX7 in Gridlife Street Class Time Trials at the end of the year.
The Elantra N is pretty difficult to find. Fortunately there was one with a manual available locally, that a customer decided to not purchase since it took 6 months to get after ordering. I went to test drive the EN and it was pretty good in all aspects. It is far better than the Civic Si/Integra A-Spec as expected.
The shifter feel was a slightly worse than the civic and the throttle mapping was weird in the normal drive mode, which made it easy to stall from a stop. That being said, the shifter still was easy to use with short throws, and no issue shifting, rev-match downshifting, etc.
The exhaust sounded good in N mode with the pops and burbles, but was quieter than expected considering I heard of issues with legality of the factory exhaust in N mode. I think all of my cars other than the Yukon are much much louder than the EN.
The steering and handling was engaging during regular driving, and I'm sure its even better at the limit. The suspension modes were similar in normal and sport; sport+ seemed a little bit stiffer, but was still comfortable on the street. Also, the steering modes didn't seem to make a huge difference. It was great to drive on the street with no complaints on comfort or cabin noise on the highway. Though the EN did not have ACC.
The road noise is quieter than the Yukon or Malibu that I tend to drive on longer trips for the highway. I used to take my mazdaspeed3 on many long trips which was not great due to lack of sound deadening, drone from the resonator delete, and loud road noise. I would wear earplugs on long drives in the MS3.
Overall, the EN was an excellent package. The EN I drove was red, and I am generally not a fan of red cars. The red didn't grow on me after seeing it in person. I think if Hyundai had my preferred color, Performance Blue in a manual, I would have purchased it right then even thought I couldn't compare it to the CTR. The dealer said they can't get allocations for Elantra N's and it would be about 6 months if they were able to get an allocation. It seems like Hyundai doesn't allow customer orders, so small dealers beg for allocations, and pick from whatever Hyundai corporate decides to produce. The dealer and saleman was great, so I feel bad that they can't order what I want.
Looking online, there are two Elantra N performance blue manuals 350 miles away that would be delivered in 1.5 months that I could put a deposit on. Otherwise it I can get the dark blue manual more easily, and even easier is the dark blue with a DCT. I'm surprised at the low availability of the EN compared to the Civic Type R. Maybe the demand has died down for the Type R from when it was released. And now people looking at both, would rather spend less on the EN.
The dealership next door were not keen on me test driving their used CTR without basically buying it first. I sat in the CTR to get a little feeling for it, the seats were comfortable and had amazing side bolsters. Though the bolsters made it a little hard to get in the car due to the lack of space between the steering wheel and the bolster when avoiding sliding over the bolsters. From the reviews, the biggest negative on the Type R is the suspension is too stiff in the stiffer drive modes, even on the race track. Also, the exhaust is even quieter than the elantra N. I know I will want to do exhaust mods and I would need to be careful to not make it annoying to drive on longer trips. I think the deciding factors for me on the CTR will be ride quality and cabin noise on highway in comfort mode, and if the CTR is a significant step up in driving experience compared to the EN. And even if the comfort mode is too stiff, I could always do the Type S suspension module, or even get a Type S instead ($49k used at a couple dealers).
All that being said, I plan to drive a Type R, and I'm still pretty interested in it after looking at a lot of reviews saying it is a really special car on the street and track. I also think the CTR looks much better than the EN, and I really like Boost Blue on the CTR. There are two Boost Blue CTRs available a couple hours away at MSRP, so its an option if the money starts burning a hole in my pocket.
Based on how I liked the EN, I'm leaning toward just comparing the EN to the Type R and decide to buy one whenever the winner is available. I know myself well enough that I could take years to buy something and its already been 4 months since I test drove the Civic Si and Integra A-Spec. I'm not in a rush to buy, but I would like something sooner rather than later since the malibu is so boring to drive and I am working on all the fun cars. It might be years find the right ATS-V, F30 340i, etc, that is close enough to test drive and has a manual transmission plus packages I want, and who knows if I will like to drive it better than the EN or CTR. I could always sell the EN/CTR in a year or two if I find something I like better. I shouldn't loose much money since I don't drive much, and they don't seem to lose much value, especially within the first couple years.
This got rather long so:
TLDR: Elantra N was great, though it is at least 1.5 months to get the color I want at a different dealership. I'm still trying to test drive a Civic Type R, which I still am interested in since it looks better, is faster, better resale, and I can get one at MSRP without waiting ($10k over an EN). I wish the CTR didn't exist so the EN would be the easy choice.
Stinger? I saw a 4 door one last night for the first time in a while.
A dealership not allowing me to test drive a vehicle I'm specifically shopping for before purchasing it would be a red flag to me.
Its a Civic Type R, not a freakin' NSX.
da_johnny_boy said:The shifter feel was a slightly worse than the civic and the throttle mapping was weird in the normal drive mode, which made it easy to stall from a stop. That being said, the shifter still was easy to use with short throws, and no issue shifting, rev-match downshifting, etc.
The exhaust sounded good in N mode with the pops and burbles, but was quieter than expected considering I heard of issues with legality of the factory exhaust in N mode. I think all of my cars other than the Yukon are much much louder than the EN.
Looking online, there are two Elantra N performance blue manuals 350 miles away that would be delivered in 1.5 months that I could put a deposit on. Otherwise it I can get the dark blue manual more easily, and even easier is the dark blue with a DCT. I'm surprised at the low availability of the EN compared to the Civic Type R. Maybe the demand has died down for the Type R from when it was released. And now people looking at both, would rather spend less on the EN.
I recently picked up a dark blue ("intense blue") 6MT. Like you, I originally wanted a Performance Blue but could not find one. If you haven't already, go look at an Intense Blue in person. The IB really pops better in person than in photos and I think it blends better with all of the black trim on the car than the PB does.
The cool thing about the EN is the "N Custom" mode, so you can configure everything to your preference. That means you can get the sport throttle mapping ("engine") with the "normal" suspension and whatever you want for exhaust/diff/TC.
I agree the exhaust seems quiet relative to all the chatter about it on the interwebs. It might be a good bit louder on the outside than than the inside. I got self conscious about the pops after a couple days so I turned those off (Engine down to Sport from Sport +) while leaving the exhaust fully open (Sport +). The car also has a bunch of settings for piped in exhaust noise that you can turn on or off to your preference.
In reply to flyin_viata :
When the Evo X was new the dealer wouldn't let me test drive one without signing a sales contract first. This was after me explaining to them I was buying a new car that week, gave them my business card, etc. I walked away...
Dean1484, I might try one, though it might be further to luxury sport sedan than I necessarily want. Seems pretty comparable with the 340i msport that I was also considering, except the 340i has a manual. They seem to be high 20s to low 30s for a used GT1/2 with the 3.3L twin turbo engine, and with that price, I think I would go with the manual Elantra N to be more fun.
Crash dummy, I definitely could consider an intense blue, but I don't mind waiting a little bit to get my preferred color. I think the closest Intense Blue manual in dealer stock is in Atlanta which is around 8 hours from me.
I'm not surprised that they didn't want me to test drive it, but I am surprised that they didn't change their mind. It only had 2000 miles on it but already had scratches and chips around it. So it wasn't really a pristine example for someone that wanted a perfect one, they should buy a new one anyways. The dealer actually called me the next day, I think business development, not the salesman or manager that I talked with, I told them I wasn't interested in coming back after coming in and not being able to test drive the vehicle. I can understand if the car has just been released and they have no issues with selling them, but the new FL5 CTR has been out for over a year now, so it definitely not super difficult to get one.
I think they aren't really serious on selling it, or really want to find a schmuck that will pay their markup. It was originally listed at $5k over MSRP ($50k) and they dropped it to $2k over MSRP after about a month. After seeing it and considering it was a year old and wasn't in perfect condition I wouldn't pay over about $2k under MSRP, and I would prefer a Boost Blue if I was going to pay MSRP. I told them I have better things to do than drive a Civic, like enjoying my FD RX7 that I drove to the dealership. Considering it was a Nissan dealership, I can understand not letting someone in a clapped out Altima test drive the CTR, but otherwise I feel like they are shooting themselves in the foot trying to get a markup over MSRP on a used vehicle that you can't test drive and compare to its competitors.
I have thought about getting a laugh by asking for pricing on the two local Honda dealers with new type Rs that have been sitting for 1+ months with ask for price online. One dealership has 3 type Rs. I'm sure it will be something dumb like a $10k markup.
I test drove a 9th gen Civic Si as a newer alternative to a TSX and TL and a cheaper alternative to a 10/11th gen Civic Si or similar. Steering, handling, and ride were good and the k24 was nice, but just felt a bit slow. I'm not sure if it is the quiet exhaust or slower acceleration, but it wasn't super engaging.
After test driving the first couple cars, I realize I am comparing them to my old mazdaspeed3. I feel like the cars I have driven so far haven't had a similar combination of fun, engagement, and acceleration. I want something that gives me the feeling of driving my mazdaspeed3, but a more refined, newer interior. So far the Elantra N has been the closest, but didn't have the same acceleration as the MS3. I'm still leaning towards a new Civic Type R, since it should be pretty close in power and be engaging to drive compared to my MS3, while being more capable. Just haven't had time to track down a MSRP dealership close-by with a Type R.
FWIW, for the past 10 years my wife’s daily has been a 2014 Civic Si sedan. It’s worked very well for us.
You need a Focus RS. Fast, fun, somewhat rare and still a practical 4-door vehicle. Buy mine! https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2017-ford-focus-rs-47/
In reply to Berck :
I was watching yours! I like the Nitrous blue. But I was pretty much ready to buy something else that weekend.
I appreciate everyone's help. I ended up buying a Boost Blue Civic Type R last weekend and drove it 3 hours home. The local dealership went down to $3k markup while the second dealership 3 hours away would sell at MSRP with a required ceramic coat and paint/fabric protection for $1k.
I'm enjoying it and look forward taking it to the track in a couple weeks. The steering is great, the ride quality is firm but not harsh. And just pushing it a little bit, it handles really well for FWD. The seats are very supportive for performance driving, but a little bit tight after a couple hours of driving. Maybe the seats will loosen up slightly, or the car is telling me I could lose a couple pounds. Its also a little tight to get it because of the large thigh and side bolster. It does have a bit of tire/road noise, especially on the freeway. I might put some sound deadening on the floor and doors to help out, but turning up the radio is easier. The Elantra N was noticeably quieter on the freeway. Last, the exhaust is very quiet and uninspired. I don't want to make it too loud so I'm hesitant on doing an aftermarket exhaust, I might just do the resonator delete that comes on the Integra Type-S.
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