I've daydreamed about this a lot, even going so far as to buy a big motor and controller about a decade ago. Unfortunately, I keep getting stuck with sticker shock on batteries and the required add ons (charger, battery maintenance, balancer, etc etc etc).
Also, id now be tempted to try and use an entire wrecked electric car instead of piecing together an aftermarket drivetrain. Like super fast Matt's project jaguar, using the motor, trans, and battery from a model 3 seems ideal. Maybe a bit more than 10k all in, but maybe not?
Can't wait to see what you come up with!
SV reX said:
Can we define or give examples of "Outlaw Cars"?
A google search of "outlaw cars" gives mini sprint racers with huge wings designed for circle track racing. A google search of "outlaw street cars" gives images of pro street muscle cars with huge hood scoops or blowers sticking out of the hood. I'm pretty sure you don't mean either of those.
Im also pretty sure I am a fan of outlaw cars too, but can't figure out the right search terms or what characteristics define an "outlaw car".
Outlaw Porsche is a very specific subgenre. I'd describe it as something like a motocycle cafe racer.
Do I have the car for you? Well, probably not long-term, but it may work for short-term, proof-of-concept.
I picked up this Alfa in 2016 and promptly did nothing with it. It was EV converted before I bought it but the full EV system was removed before purchase. It still has the stock transmission and custom made motor and battery mounts under the hood and in the trunk. It has a clean FL title in my name and for you (or anyone else on the GRM boards for that matter) it can be had at the rock bottom price of $0. Am I losing money? yes. Do I want it out of my life so I stop thinking about it in the middle of the night? Also, yes.
Car is in Clearwater, FL if you, or anyone else is interested.
In reply to hobiercr :
I appreciate the offer! It's so friggin tempting but I'm not quite ready to pull the trigger yet. Also a vert has never been something I lust after, which means motivation would probably be lacking similar to yourself. Old me would have started figuring out logistics immediately but I really want to nail down a good idea of what this project needs to be when finished.
I imagine there are quite a few GRM alumni that would take you up on it though, and I hope that someone seizes the opportunity.
In reply to captainawesome :
Oh, I get it. I knew it was a long shot but I had to offer. I offered it up a few years ago for $100 and a newer GRM'r in FL reached out, was interested, but never followed through. Maybe it will find a new home. I'm not holding my breath though.
SV reX
MegaDork
4/28/24 5:11 p.m.
Oh dear. I'm looking for a convertible... 🙄
Here's an interesting build. I've also got a 1970 Saab 99 and thought, hmm a Leaf drivetrain could be interesting.
How about a BMW 2002/Tesla Model S cross?
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/951890809948257/?mibextid=dXMIcH
I am intrigued by how large the box fenders are gonna be on this Mini...and box fenders makes everything better!
I believe the easy / cheap button is a Nissan leaf. All of the motors are capable of near 200 hp. It's just the battery and controller that are different.
The 40kw battery is capable of putting out enough juice. The 2018 through 2023 controllers from the sv plus are the controllers you want for the big hp.
If the requirements are:
- long(ish) range at high(ish) speed
- awesome looking classic car styling
- cheap
I think you discover another example of "pick two".
There are maybe 3 basic approaches to EV conversions?
- take the complete powertrain plus every associated system from a donor production EV, then transplant all of it into the recipient car while making everything think it is still in the original car. Requires lots of error-code troubleshooting while you figure out if the car needs the ground wire from the left rear cup holder courtesy light, but otherwise it may not require as much technical knowledge. You can get many/most/all of the production EV's features like fast charging but you also could keep the basic chassis 'feel' of the recipient car. One of the first Bolt-based conversions used this approach going into a Vanagon.
- 'hat car' by dropping another body onto a production EV platform (see Plaidessey, Avanti onto a Leaf, the FBM Tesla-2002 mess above). The result mostly drives like the production EV but looks different and has more wind noise.
- assemble and integrate random components. Ultimate in flexibility and you may not need to start with a complete or functional donor car. Downside is a choice between: 1) you have a very minimalist vehicle after conversion; 2) you need lots of technical skills with electronics; or 3) you spend $$$$ for aftermarket solutions to make life easier (the EV equivalents to buying a Haltech and ready-made wiring harness)
A 4th approach is paying $$$$$ for a complete conversion kit (Electric Classic Cars, EV West, etc), but c'mon, this is GRM.
I can't find much about using a Spark EV as a conversion donor, maybe just due to low production numbers and the tiny battery. The drive unit looks interesting and the 2015+ battery modules might be easy to move around. OTOH, the Spark was supposed to have 82 miles of range when new, so you are not going to increase that to a real-world 100-125miles unless you make something very very light and very very low-drag (see: VW "1-liter" or L1)
Interesting factoids from looking at the ecomodder wiki:
- Sonett III should have 32% less aero drag than a 1st gen Leaf (the Cd is slightly worse for the Sonett, 0.31 vs. 0.28, but it is much smaller than a Leaf).
- 914 should have 12% less aero drag than a 1st gen Leaf, again just b/c it is small. Adding big fender flares is not going to help.
Don't do it.
Hey, you asked. You can thank me later.
In reply to earlybroncoguy1 :
Funny enough I think I'm officially talked out of it already. After scratching my head about what I want in a finished car, I don't have a good answer other than it sounds like a cool project that I could learn from. A cool project that won't be worth much when I'm finished. That's not something that I usually consider much, but I think this being far more "unique" makes it a wild card. On top of that I just don't have the motivation to do a project of this scope anymore, I just have to keep reminding myself of that. Sometimes I wish I was still young, ignorant, and full of energy for something of this magnitude.
In reply to MadScientistMatt :
My electric car will be a 100% stock appearing Model T Tudor (named Matilda) with a 72v Golf cart power train driving the stock rear differential.
It will have nearly an identical range and top speed as the OE drivetrain but be 100% jump on and go.
NMNA: EM61 into E30 (Leaf-powered 1986 BMW 325), $7k negotiable and it's been listed for 5 weeks, north of Denver. Does not say what capacity Leaf batteries were used.
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/773119401427849/
This listing is for a 1986 BMW 325 E30 that has been converted to electric. The car has a motor and electronics from a Nissan Leaf. It still has the BMW 5 speed gearbox and can go 100mph+. Im selling because we're moving and I won't have time or space for this vehicle. This car is registered as an electric vehicle in Colorado. It has already been though the inspection and certification process. Even if you chose to upgrade the motor or batteries, you will not need to take it for any inspections because it's already registered as an EV. The battery range is about 45 miles. The body panels are not perfect, but overall it's been a very fun and reliable project car. This has been my daily driver for 4 years. I have a ton of extra parts that I never got to install and would like to include with the car. This car is for the technically minded owner. It will be a project. You have to be willing to learn the Nissan Leaf electrical controls and the BMW mechanical parts. The car runs off 400V which can be dangerous if you are not careful when working on it.
This BMW is in my town and I would be very happy to go look at it for someone who is interested.
kb58
UltraDork
5/6/24 3:06 p.m.
captainawesome said:
In reply to earlybroncoguy1 :
Funny enough I think I'm officially talked out of it already. After scratching my head about what I want in a finished car, I don't have a good answer other than it sounds like a cool project that I could learn from. A cool project that won't be worth much when I'm finished. That's not something that I usually consider much, but I think this being far more "unique" makes it a wild card. On top of that I just don't have the motivation to do a project of this scope anymore, I just have to keep reminding myself of that. Sometimes I wish I was still young, ignorant, and full of energy for something of this magnitude.
The EV systems are so interconnected, it makes sense to keep it all together. Since the motors are typically an integral part of the suspense subframe, may as well keep that together, so the whole project ends up as a rebody rather than a scratch-build. That's not necessarily a bad thing - making the project much simpler and quicker, but at the end of the day, I didn't feel that it would be different enough to bother. Okay, get a Mazerati BiTurbo for cheap, cutting and welding the shell onto a Tesla/whatever EV. So it ends up being a car (shell) that's relatively rare but not different enough for anyone to notice (and if they do recognize it as a "Mazerati", they'll feel sorry for you), but pretty much everyone else won't even notice. It won't be any quicker than the Tesla/whatever it replaces, and it's worth little.
I realize that a project like this is for fun and education and not necessarily how practical or useful the end result is (I'm building wooden-gear clocks right now, which makes zero sense). It'll definitely be a cool learning experience, but think about what you want to do with it once it's done and decide if it'll achieve those goals.
It seems like every Leaf that I see for sale at a low price point has a pretty garbage range left on the batteries. They are infamous for poor battery life.
kb58
UltraDork
5/6/24 6:02 p.m.
Kreb (Forum Supporter) said:
It seems like every Leaf that I see for sale at a low price point has a pretty garbage range left on the batteries. They are infamous for poor battery life.
A coworker bought a used one solely for commuting (our company having just adding chargers). Thing was, he lived about 30 miles one-way from work, so if he couldn't get on the charger that day, he'd just barely make it home.
kb58 said:
captainawesome said:
In reply to earlybroncoguy1 :
Funny enough I think I'm officially talked out of it already. After scratching my head about what I want in a finished car, I don't have a good answer other than it sounds like a cool project that I could learn from. A cool project that won't be worth much when I'm finished. That's not something that I usually consider much, but I think this being far more "unique" makes it a wild card. On top of that I just don't have the motivation to do a project of this scope anymore, I just have to keep reminding myself of that. Sometimes I wish I was still young, ignorant, and full of energy for something of this magnitude.
The EV systems are so interconnected, it makes sense to keep it all together. Since the motors are typically an integral part of the suspense subframe, may as well keep that together, so the whole project ends up as a rebody rather than a scratch-build.
Did you watch that Rich Rebuilds video I posted above about the super cheap MINI conversion? All the parts were used and came from different sources. There's no need to keep everything from the same donor car.
I've wanted a replica brass era electric car, only with modern running gear. Although I would make an exception to modern electronics if I could run the inverter on mercury arc valves. Imagine a four wheel burnout on Firestone No Skid tube tires... Ok, that may be a good thing I don't have the time or money to build such a thing.
The cool thing about an E30 is how huge the trunk is, making it a very useful car for the size.
That converison fills the trunk space.
MadScientistMatt said:
I've wanted a replica brass era electric car, only with modern running gear. Although I would make an exception to modern electronics if I could run the inverter on mercury arc valves. Imagine a four wheel burnout on Firestone No Skid tube tires... Ok, that may be a good thing I don't have the time or money to build such a thing.
Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
MadScientistMatt said:
I've wanted a replica brass era electric car, only with modern running gear. Although I would make an exception to modern electronics if I could run the inverter on mercury arc valves. Imagine a four wheel burnout on Firestone No Skid tube tires... Ok, that may be a good thing I don't have the time or money to build such a thing.
"I have a replica of an early Porsche." "Oh, like a 356?" "No, an early Porsche."
The pic is probably a HEV but there was supposed to be an AWD BEV as well.
Each hub motor is 2.5-3.5hp (7 hp peak) and weighs 600#... a modern e-bike hub motor that powerful is going to be less than 30# (except it would be more useful to compare torque output).
