Convert a Power rack to a manual rack- possibly? Difficult?

Didn't want to hijack the electric rack thread.

I know of one guy that has done it on his Celica, he looped the lines and kept fluid in it. The reverse of this is a write up where I saw someone rip the guts out of their rack. This seemed daunting, And require c-clips and all sorts of difficult sounding words were used.

Is there another way to do this? Is looping the lines the simple solution? I don't want to burn out my rack because it's a rare part to get. They made a manual rack for this year of Celica, but it's a unicorn part and I haven't seen one for sale in three years.

Here's how we do it on a Miata: https://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/depower.php

Keeping the fluid in means you're pumping fluid back and forth, which will increase effort.

On our race Civic, we cut the lines, purged the rack, and crimped them off.

Squeeze out the fluid, loop the lines to keep the internals clean, and rip out all the PS stuff.

Crimping the ends off is also suboptimal since your rack will now have to compress air to move and will have a bit of a springy centering effect as a result.

If I recall...to do so properly on a Miata there is a bit of welding involved.

After reading the procedure, I would make my first move a search for a manual rack before I went to the effort of tearing the power one apart.

For the E30, you can buy a clever little bit of delrin that's machined in such a way that it "loops" the lines, while allowing you to remove the physical lines completely. Something like that could probably be engineered for your application fairly easily.

NOHOME wrote: If I recall...to do so properly on a Miata there is a bit of welding involved. After reading the procedure, I would make my first move a search for a manual rack before I went to the effort of tearing the power one apart.

Manual racks often have a slower ratio than the power ones. I dunno if this is true on a Celica, but the Miata manual rack is like this and it makes it really annoying to drive, IMHO.

It is opposite on the Celica. Toyota being the all stars they are made every car with a manual rack have a quicker ratio. Essentially "the track version"

Idea on quickening the rack then? Would that take crazy math and machining?

I've done it both ways on the same car. The looping the lines was ALMOST as good as the proper depowering and welding.

Try the looping the lines and see if you like it. If so, do it the right way.

Leave some fluid if you loop the lines. It helps lubricate and prevent wear.

It is way easier steering to look the lines than it is to remove the belt. Removing the belt only is NOT the way to try it out....

I tried that for a week. I put the belt back. Awful steering. I looked like popeye after a week...

Trackmouse wrote: I tried that for a week. I put the belt back. Awful steering. I looked like popeye after a week...

Yeah, that doesn't tell you anything other than hydraulic systems use hp....

On the Porsche 944, there's been some failures of the steering shaft and u-joints due to depowering the racks.

The manual equipped cars had larger steering shafts and u-joints.

So be aware with changing the loads through the steering components.

Personally, I'd adapt an electric steering column from a GM or other product, which allows for adjustable steering effort based on speed or other inputs.

Stefan (Not Bruce) wrote: On the Porsche 944, there's been some failures of the steering shaft and u-joints due to depowering the racks. The manual equipped cars had larger steering shafts and u-joints. So be aware with changing the loads through the steering components. Personally, I'd adapt an electric steering column from a GM or other product, which allows for adjustable steering effort based on speed or other inputs.

Lol. Sorry man, this is a Toyota we're talking about here, Not a German fall-a-part... The u-joints cross reference to the same part number. Thanks for the thought though!

Trackmouse wrote: Didn't want to hijack the electric rack thread. I know of one guy that has done it on his Celica, he looped the lines and kept fluid in it. The reverse of this is a write up where I saw someone rip the guts out of their rack. This seemed daunting, And require c-clips and all sorts of difficult sounding words were used. Is there another way to do this? Is looping the lines the simple solution? I don't want to burn out my rack because it's a rare part to get. They made a manual rack for this year of Celica, but it's a unicorn part and I haven't seen one for sale in three years.

Do NOT keep fluid in it. That makes the steering stiff.

Remove the pressure and return lines, turn the rack back and forth a bunch of times to pump all of the fluid OUT. Cut the lines off flush with the nuts, weld over to make plugs, install. Now take the ram lines, cut THOSE, and loop the two on the rack together. They are now equalization tubes between the two halves of the rack. Take the spoolvalve end of the ram lines and loop them together too. Basically you just need a hacksaw and a couple lengths of 1/4" fuel hose and some clamps. Making the plugs with the welder is optional but good practice.

I did this on my RX-7 rack in 2010. It's still holding up just fine. According to the Internet, if you do this without welding up the spool valve assembly, the spool torsion bar will break and leave you without any steering, on FC/FDs that run on glass-smooth road courses. I, however, have "beat the E36 M3 out of it" rallycrossing on multiple seasons, breaking multiple strut tops, axles, axle housings, various rear-suspension mounting points... but the rack is just fine, has a little play in it but it always did since in its previous life it was run a long time without a driver's side boot.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/UtzWWVCxqD4

(Yes, that's an FB. Didja know that an FC front subframe is practically a bolt-in proposition?)

I did one of my racks exactly as shown here:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/1709/Project-Miatabusa-Part-5--De-Powering-the-Steering-Rack.aspx

I have a bunch of that Weld Mold 880 filler rod - had to buy a minimum amount and only used about an inch or so for the pinion. If anyone wants to buy some in small quantity send me a pm.

In reply to Trackmouse:

Don't be a fanboi

Just pointing out that stuff can break if you stress them.

In the example of the 944, the pinion shaft has broken and internal parts could fail if you screw it up as loads are quite a bit different.

In reply to Stefan (Not Bruce):

just having fun.

Trackmouse wrote: I tried that for a week. I put the belt back. Awful steering. I looked like popeye after a week...

I keep thinking this sounds like a great workout plan

My e30 with e36 rack is looped with fluid removed using the nifty piece of delrin mentioned earlier. The lemons e30 with stock rack is looped with fluid removed using some hose. Both work well, no failures. Not to say it can't happen though.

To the comment about changing the ratio of a rack, you would only really be able to do that with one of those inline quickener planetary gearsets. Modding the rack itself would take some serious fill welding and machining knowhow.

I depowered my FC RX7 rack using the Flyin Miata tutorial. Worked great.

gearheadE30 wrote: To the comment about changing the ratio of a rack, you would only really be able to do that with one of those inline quickener planetary gearsets. Modding the rack itself would take some serious fill welding and machining knowhow.

For popular cars you might be able to buy a replacement rack shaft & pinion set with a quicker ratio.