Crazy Mid Engine Hatchback Ideas...

m4ff3w wrote:

Slyp_Dawg wrote: other than that I've never heard of anyone doing anything sporty with a Yugo

May the ghost of Jonny Pruitt* haunt you for all your days. If Jonny Pruitt were actually, you know, dead.

I dun want to be haunted! may I save my sanity by doing a nice small displacement SHOYugo? methinks the Yugo engine (just because the metal is allegedly better than the metal in Fiat-produced engines of the same design/displacement) bolted to a 5 speed transverse transaxle, mounted where the rear seats used to be, canted forward about 25 degrees to help weight balance. that should remove the haunting, right?

if you are going to use the fiat/yugo engine.. I would suggest cutting up a rusted out X for the rear suspension and pickup points.

As for the metal being better or worse.. I have never heard any complaints about the fiat engines.. probably the only parts of the car that don't rot out

Spinout007 wrote:

MrJoshua wrote: N* fits in the back of an N600-sortof

.

If you narrowed the lower control arms and moved the spindles inboard, how bad would that effect the suspension?

I don't think you could ever narrow it enough to get those meats under cover, but closer anyway.

Dan

The beauty/pia of that project was that the engine and transmission took the entire width of the car. There was no fender cutting required to fit the wheels and tires-just aim the control arms out the wheel wells and you were set.

Slyp_Dawg wrote: I dun want to be haunted! may I save my sanity by doing a nice small displacement SHOYugo? methinks the Yugo engine (just because the metal is allegedly better than the metal in Fiat-produced engines of the same design/displacement) bolted to a 5 speed transverse transaxle, mounted where the rear seats used to be, canted forward about 25 degrees to help weight balance. that should remove the haunting, right?

Ummm... that would make it an X 1/9.

The Fiat X 1/9 is essentially a mid engine RWD Yugo. Same drivetrain in a different location.

I'm not sure what the gain would be. You'd go through a lot of work to have no increase in hp, re-worked rear suspension (maybe better, maybe worse), a big change in the weight distribution (which could drastically change the handling characteristics), and change the drive to RWD, which would make it a very underpowered RWD car without most of the nimble handling of the Yugo.

AT LEAST up the hp. Turbo dodge (300 hp) should do the trick.

I truly doubt any difference in the metal of the engines. Yugos were built under license from Fiat (it was originally the Fiat 126). They essentially WERE Fiats.

How about a '90 Pontiac Le Mans hatchback with a supercharged 3800? I bet we could put that together for close to nothing!

MrJoshua wrote: The beauty/pia of that project was that the engine and transmission took the entire width of the car. There was no fender cutting required to fit the wheels and tires-just aim the control arms out the wheel wells and you were set.

Do you have more pictures of that online somewhere?

Woody wrote:

Apexcarver wrote: Honda civic del-sol's are begging for a twin engine treatment...

CR X-squared: http://www.carlustblog.com/2008/02/car-lust--twin.html

Holy E36 M3. How is it that I've never heard of this??? Our ultimate goal for the General Tso (86 CRX) was to cram in twin 2.2L turbo dodge motors, ansonivan's Durocco-style. Alas, the one running, cheap 2.2 we found met it's demise in the Boss Hong.

Anyway, this one's pretty incredible as well, and the Civic would give you a little more room to move around than the CRX:

^^ even looks like an R5 Renault

SVreX wrote: Ummm... that would make it an X 1/9. The Fiat X 1/9 is essentially a mid engine RWD Yugo. Same drivetrain in a different location. I'm not sure what the gain would be. You'd go through a lot of work to have no increase in hp, re-worked rear suspension (maybe better, maybe worse), a big change in the weight distribution (which could drastically change the handling characteristics), and change the drive to RWD, which would make it a very underpowered RWD car without most of the nimble handling of the Yugo. AT LEAST up the hp. Turbo dodge (300 hp) should do the trick. I truly doubt any difference in the metal of the engines. Yugos were built under license from Fiat (it was originally the Fiat 126). They essentially WERE Fiats.

Going to disagree on at least one point.. nobody ever called the X a boat handling wise. It is one of the best handling cars ever produced (the fact that it was cheap was even better) why do you think the SCCA puts them into a class they cannot compete in?

Also, with all the room in the back of a Yugo, you can drop a 2.0 Fiat TwinCam onto that Yugo/Fiat transmission.. even better, use the trans from a Lancia Beta.

Cammed up, injected, and with a flowed head and high compression.. you should see somewhere around 160hp. The Abarth Racers with 16v heads and kugalfisher injection saw up to 200hp in the middle of the 70s.

If you wanted to go whole hog.. bring over the 16v head from a lancia delta and all the parts you need to turbocharge it. The head more or less bolts right onto the block

I didn't mean to suggest the X 1/9 was ever a boat- I was suggesting that a chopped up Yugo wouldn't handle like a Yugo.

It would essentially be an X 1/9 with a much higher center of gravity, much worse aerodynamics, and much less well designed and sifgificantly more flexible chassis including rigged up engine mounts and rear suspension mounts. The success of the project would have a lot to do with the skill of the person rigging it up. So, why not up the hp?

The effort to do the Lancia (or other Fiat motor) in the rear is essentially the same as doing a N* Yugo. Any savings in build difficulty would immediately be lost in the higher difficulty in finding parts from various rare Fiats/ Yugos. What is the gain? What value is there to doing it that way?

Look up any Challenge picture of Jonny Pruitt or me cornering in a Yugo. They all have the inside rear wheel lifted about 8" off the ground.

Unlike the X 1/9, that is one SERIOUSLY flexible chassis, BEFORE you cut it up.

Just to add a little liquid oxygen onto the fire:

The outer CV joints and drivelines from an X-1/9 fit into the inner CV joints of a Neon or Turbo-Dodge. Making that swap one less headache easier.

Now the problem with the X-1/9 and the 2.2 swap is a lack of room in the engine bay. The water pump doesn't clear the frame rail, the engine barely fits in the engine bay without the intake and exhaust, etc. In the front or back of a Yugo you'd have more room to work with allowing a DOHC swap and more intake/exhaust options, etc.

Chassis stiffening isn't too bad provided you don't mind a little weight penalty (upping the power to 300+hp will negate a bit of that, heh)

SVreX wrote: Look up any Challenge picture of Jonny Pruitt or me cornering in a Yugo. They all have the inside rear wheel lifted about 8" off the ground. Unlike the X 1/9, that is one SERIOUSLY flexible chassis, BEFORE you cut it up.

is that flexible or stiff?

Flexible.

The car is torquing in the middle. 3 wheels down, 1 wheel up by significantly more than the suspension travel at the opposite corner.

Although I agree the N* would be good (and you gotta let me know so I can make even more radical flares this time around) Back when the Yugo was in my possession I was seriously considering (to the point of buying a donor car) swapping an Alfa V6. Its a lovely motor visually, audibly etc. With a donor 164 you could do the swap. I was going to mount it up front but mid is possible too.

Honestly if you were going to cut up the Yugo for a mid mount I'd use an X1/9 drivetrain mounted in the rear, keep the yugo drivetrain up front and go dual engine awd ala Durroco. I also had that drivetrain sitting with the Yugo for awhile waiting for me to get courage and motivation....alas it never happened.

Someday I want another one, that was still my favorite build.

fiat22turbo wrote: Chassis stiffening isn't too bad provided you don't mind a little weight penalty (upping the power to 300+hp will negate a bit of that, heh)

I completely agree.

That's why I've been suggesting more hp.

Slyp_Dawg's idea at the beginning of this page was to "save his sanity by doing a nice small displacement SHOYugo" utilizing a Yugo engine. The Yugo never had more than 65 hp from the factory. I understand that can be improved on, but it is unlikely you're gonna get much more than 100 hp from a Yugo engine. That's OK in a Yugo, because the beauty of the car is that you can also keep the weight extremely low (mine weighs under 1200 lbs), and therefore end with a very nimble little screamer.

But a SHOYugo is a different animal, because of the weight penalty you will suffer in the modifications for engine mounting, structural reinforcing, suspension mounting, etc.

It's not worth doing with a Yugo motor, IMHO.

But it IS worth doing.

BTW- the X 1/9 weighs more than the Yugo, and has much less that can easily cut out. An X 1/9 in track form probably weighs more like 1700- 1800 lbs (500 lbs more than my Yugo).

And yes, I also agree with JThw8 that if you are going to stick with the Fiat motors, leaving the one up front would be the way to go. Just for the fun of it.

Note, that it would be difficult to find a place for the fuel tank (probably a fuel cell in the passenger seat, which would make it pretty illegal in most racing venues)

JThw8 wrote: Although I agree the N* would be good (and you gotta let me know so I can make even more radical flares this time around)

Are you offering to build me a set of monstrously radical flares?

SVreX wrote:

JThw8 wrote: Although I agree the N* would be good (and you gotta let me know so I can make even more radical flares this time around)

Are you offering to build me a set of monstrously radical flares?

If you can get me the body shell Im up for doing another set :) There are things I wish I had done differently on that set. But you gotta get the N* mounted first ;)

SVreX wrote:

fiat22turbo wrote: Chassis stiffening isn't too bad provided you don't mind a little weight penalty (upping the power to 300+hp will negate a bit of that, heh)

I completely agree. That's why I've been suggesting more hp. Slyp_Dawg's idea at the beginning of this page was to "save his sanity by doing a nice small displacement SHOYugo" utilizing a Yugo engine. The Yugo never had more than 65 hp from the factory. I understand that can be improved on, but it is unlikely you're gonna get much more than 100 hp from a Yugo engine. That's OK in a Yugo, because the beauty of the car is that you can also keep the weight extremely low (mine weighs under 1200 lbs), and therefore end with a very nimble little screamer. But a SHOYugo is a different animal, because of the weight penalty you will suffer in the modifications for engine mounting, structural reinforcing, suspension mounting, etc. It's not worth doing with a Yugo motor, IMHO. But it IS worth doing. BTW- the X 1/9 weighs more than the Yugo, and has much less that can easily cut out. An X 1/9 in track form probably weighs more like 1700- 1800 lbs (500 lbs more than my Yugo).

agreed, a smaller displacement engine wouldn't have the same weight penalty as a N does, although with a N-powered yugo is more or less a N* engine with some sheetmetal hung off of it and a seat in front of it. a SHOYugo utilizing a smaller engine, or at least a lighter engine, would definitely be a great track machine, although finding a class to stick it in for anything except GRM $200x challenges would be rather difficult (in SCCA it would likely get thrown in the "Specials" class, one of the sport racer classes, dependent on engine displacement, or the GT class, depending on the extent of the rollcage, not sure what NASA would consider it). there are many small displacement engine options that could work, hell the engine/transaxle out of most MR2/MR-S or Fieros would work quite well, and it's already set up for a mid-engine application, and given the popularity of engine swaps in Fieros and the number of cars that use a Fiero for a donor but beg for more than the stock engine has to offer means there are probably a lot of Fiero engines/transaxles on the market

MR2 motor wont make it do wheelies or run 10 second 1/4 mile times.

MrJoshua wrote: MR2 motor wont make it do wheelies or run 10 second 1/4 mile times.

If it's the sw20 turbo motor, sure it will! You're looking at ~300whp with bolt ons... Get some two step on that thing and launch it on 10psi with some slicks in back.

MrJoshua wrote: MR2 motor wont make it do wheelies or run 10 second 1/4 mile times.

never said it would, but it would be a step up from a Yugo lump, and lighter than a N* and a transaxle capable of handling that power

JThw8 wrote: Someday I want another one, that was still my favorite build.

Agreed. i already have mine palnned out in my head. i need one at this point..not want...need