Cruising in Europe.

When I took my MGTD  to the local drive in  car show,  even the old school Hot  rodders  loved to watch me hand crank start the engine.  None of them have that ability. 
   They contacted me last night to see if I would be interested in joining them  for a couple of months.  June & July. 
   It's all old school hot rods ( they would make an exception for me since it looks old school). 
    The ship meets us in New York  takes us to. England.  Then it's Ferries to a lot of various countries. Norway, Sweden, Denmark then drive through France , Italy  and leave from Spain.  We return to Miami. 
  It's 2 years planning. Since so many various clubs and ships are involved.    They are projecting a $3500 cost.  
       I understand they are looking for 1000+ cars.  Some of the trip  is being underwritten and some  there are optional places to stay like a nearby campground. Or a Hotel. 
  They will have a couple of chase vehicles.  But  we need to provide spares. 
 

So my question is,  what don't I know?   Should ask about?   My wife turned me down flat. But maybe Joe would join me. 
    

First of all be prepared to have to ship your car all the way across Europe and fly back to the US if it breaks down at the furthest point from the transatlantic ferry and can't be fixed quickly. The ferry will leave at a specific time so you won't have time for any lengthy fixes. You may be able to spend more time in Europe but you don't want your car trapped on the wrong side of the pond.

Consider the weather where you're going and the time of year. Does your car have heat? Will it start in winter? Not overheat in a Spanish summer? Think about your tires' temperature range, if you were on modern 200TW that would mean watching out for subzero temps for example.

Also congrats on keeping your arms intact and only articulating in the right places with that crank start (on that note, also look into travel insurance to cover potential health care costs as a foreigner)

That sounds like a lot of fun.

It also sounds like it could turn into a $20k trip. I'd figure at least $150 a day for food, fuel, and lodging. If everyone is staying at resorts and lodges, that number goes up significantly. 

What happens when you lunch an engine in BFE Europe? 

Plan for the worst. Hope for the best and do it. 

We will need lots of updates and pictures. 

Yeah, $3,500 sounds like it would be cost of just the vehicle transportation portion. If that's truely the out of pocket cost then it's a hell of a deal and probably a lot of fundraising/sponsorship.

Having gone to Europe too many times , I see this as not going to happen with 1000 cars , 

There is just not room enough to do this , 1000 places on the ferry , 1000 extra hotel rooms every night , same for restaurants , gas stations and on and on....

100 cars  would be hard to do , 

it would be fun with 10-20 cars

I  hope the organizers have done a big tour like this before  , Good Luck

GameboyRMH said:

First of all be prepared to have to ship your car all the way across Europe and fly back to the US if it breaks down at the furthest point from the transatlantic ferry and can't be fixed quickly. The ferry will leave at a specific time so you won't have time for any lengthy fixes. You may be able to spend more time in Europe but you don't want your car trapped on the wrong side of the pond.

Consider the weather where you're going and the time of year. Does your car have heat? Will it start in winter? Not overheat in a Spanish summer? Think about your tires' temperature range, if you were on modern 200TW that would mean watching out for subzero temps for example.

Also congrats on keeping your arms intact and only articulating in the right places with that crank start (on that note, also look into travel insurance to cover potential health care costs as a foreigner)

June & July. So winter shouldn't be an issue.   I've driven across  Southern California, Arizona  and New Mexico. In August without an issue.   Think Spain would be a lot hotter than that???     
  The break down possibility has me s scratching my head. More than a little worried.  While I have confidence in my skills,  I'll admit the possibility of failure  of a 70 year old car is real.  The spares I'd carry won't include an engine or transmission.  ( although I've got spares of both ) 

They are talking about a lead and chase vehicles.  But mine would be one of the youngest invited.   If I was the last broken down, would they have room?  

I'd assumed there would be tow trucks  or just trucks I could put it on and run ahead to the next port. 
  Regarding the hand cranking ?  I think a 7 year old could do it safely. 
  Really it's that easy and in 60 years of ownership it's never back fired.  
    Can't say that about the Model T & A's  I've hand cranked.  The  proper grip has saved me  but they are much harder to start especially  if the advance and throttle are set wrong. 

In reply to californiamilleghia :

That's a great question.  What sort of prior experience  do they have.   
   They did say that we'd be going to England on the same ship that brought over Rolls Royce, Bentley, Jaguars. And Land Rovers. 
 The return ship would be one that brings commercial trucks and buses over.  So it sound more then adequate.  
  I've only been on a few ferries   But I can see a lot of cars on the ones I've been on. They handled plenty of semi's and busses plus all the competitors for the races in the Bahama's. With plenty of room left over. 
    My real question is break downs.   Cars from the 20's 30's 40's  on trips covering thousands of miles?   

In reply to frenchyd :

To be fair an MG will be an easier job of getting spares in Europe than say a Chrysler or another standard American product. 
 

maybe an Adac membership or something similar will be good  

https://exchange.aaa.com/international-travel/international-clubs/

Reminds me of The Worlds Fastest Indian movie where Burt takes the ship to the USA and has to cook to cover his cost of getting across the ocean.  Is that why it's $3500?  LOL  

Here's an alternate and it's this summer. 
 

Head over to Manitowoc, WI and grab the SS Badger ferry to Ludington, MI.  Participate in the many English car shows in Michigan.  Cheaper and easier!   LOL

https://maddogsandenglishmen.org/mde/index.cfm?mibextid=Zxz2cZ

Toyman! said:

That sounds like a lot of fun.

It also sounds like it could turn into a $20k trip. I'd figure at least $150 a day for food, fuel, and lodging. If everyone is staying at resorts and lodges, that number goes up significantly. 

What happens when you lunch an engine in BFE Europe? 

Plan for the worst. Hope for the best and do it. 

We will need lots of updates and pictures. 

I sure hope you're wrong. Definitely something for me to check into.  
      No way can I take 20k out of the retirement fund.
      I assumed gas and food would be on my nickle.  Probably even lodging. Which when they said camping.  My ears picked right up.   
the MG gets really decent fuel mileage.  I've got a double spare tire  mount.  So I could use my 16" wire wheels  where the land tends to be towards the flat  and the regular 15" for the mountains.  But $10-15 a gallon? Gulp. 

Norway is $8.33 a US gallon today , that's the highest , 

Spain is $6.61 , 

You are also going to have a lot of toll roads unless they do rural roads and go thru a lot of small cities....

In reply to californiamilleghia :

Now that is something I really hate.  Toll roads.    The taxes collected in the gas isn't enough?   
 Not just in Europe, here in America.    So how expensive will they be?  

In reply to Datsun310Guy :

Where is the GOF  ( gathering of the faithful ) this year?  

Toll roads in France are pretty expensive , also Italy which you are not going to , 

Not sure if you need a Motorway permit  up North , I never drove there , You do need one in Switzerland and Czech Republic .

Ohh and make sure you have a front license plate to keep the speed cameras happy !

Toyman! said:

What happens when you lunch an engine in BFE Europe? 

all the issues w.r.t. the recent earthquake and Turkey, aside (and, what one considers to be "Europe")... there's a contention to be made that "BFE Europe" no longer exists.  Regarless of which, none of the mentioned itinerary goes anywhere near what's frequently called "CEE".

Frenchy'll be able to source help... it'll just cost money and time (probably plenty of both); and hopefully the rally planners have pre-planned connections for sorting this stuff.

I'll agree, though, the $3500 sounds like just the cost of shipping/ferries.  Nothing about the actual tour costs themselves.

Frenchy:  You might look around at written-up / video experiences about recent Mille Miglia "historic rally events", especially if you can find ones/some about people who broke down.  There's usually a pretty good contigent of Goodwood/British (the island) historic race car / car people types that head there for that.  So, there'll be some info in English from it.

Fueled by Caffeine said:

In reply to frenchyd :

To be fair an MG will be an easier job of getting spares in Europe than say a Chrysler or another standard American product. 
 

maybe an Adac membership or something similar will be good  

 

https://exchange.aaa.com/international-travel/international-clubs/

 

MG parts would have to come out of England  and some of the English parts originated in America.  Everybody overlooks percentage of production that went to America.  Over  50% of Jaguars production came to America  and less than 20% stayed in England. 
   I'm sure I won't need any kind of breakdown service.  Since I've done all the work on that car for the past 60 years.   

It sounds like a terrible idea, and if I could afford it I'd go tomorrow. 

As someone who's got a little bit of experience shipping vehicles across the Atlantic and also driving in Europe, I'd very much like to know what the $3500 covers. My guess is the same as some of the previous posters, namely that that's likely the shipping cost, probably RoRo in both directions (and hopefully including insurance, but I'd double check that). Anything else is likely gravy.

I don't think the estimates of $20k all in are that far off. It's possible to the whole thing a bit cheaper, but hotels in Europe generally aren't cheap even if you stick to the Motel 6 equivalents, plus the various ferries listed also aren't exactly free. Also, keep in mind that at least part of July is top tourist season in some of the countries listed, which has a noticeable impact on prices.

If I were you I would ask what they expected total is, and especially pay attention to the following:

• Is there any vehicle insurance included, or do you have to sort that out yourself? Your normal US-based insurance will not cover you in Europe, and getting insurance cover over there isn't going to be cheap if you have to source it yourself.
• The group size seems unrealistic - I can only think of a handful of places (let alone single hotels outside some tourist traps in France and Spain) that can accommodate the number of people being mentioned.
• Are hotels included in whatever final price they come up with? Those are going to be a major expense, and ideally the organizer would negotiate a group rate. You'd still want to know what the expected cost is.
• How are the cars shipped? I'm guessing RoRo, and does the shipping cost include insurance? Maritime insurance is a bit funny if you're faced with a loss situation - if the boat decides to play U-Boat, you might well be on the hook for more money than your car is worth unless you have an appropriate insurance policy.
• What is the expected budget for fuel, tolls, etc? They should give you at least a ballpark figure if it's an organized drive following a set route. For example, I can (and have) crossed France North to South without paying a single toll, but that's not a route I'd want to take with even a convoy of fifty cars.
• The ferries aren't going to be that cheap either, but not that bad. I really only see one ferry on this route if I were to plan it, and that's from the UK to the Continent. *Maybe* from Denmark to Norway as well, but I'd just drive from Denmark to Sweden.

Do you have some more info on the proposed route? Trying to integrate Italy is a bit of a detour if you then need to be in Spain as the final destination. 

Wow, that sounds like fun!

If the turnout is anywhere near what they are hoping for, I'd stay home. I did the Hot Rod Power Tour in 2001 and about 3500 cars showed up. It was a 2500 mile long traffic jam. Every hotel was full, every restaurant had extended wait times, every gas station was out of fuel, every parking lot had no where to park. It really took the fun out of it. 

In reply to SV reX :

Yeh,  I'm just realizing that.   Maybe they can make the costs low enough so it's affordable.  But the crowds.  Ugh!   Good point 

In reply to BoxheadTim :

The closer I look the less inviting it seems.    The few times I've been to Europe it's either me on the Navy's dime, or as a prize for winning a sales contest. 
     The prize winning contests were all first class, the Navy trips I was young and thrilled and on my own. 
   They did mention in discussing the shipping the Ferries with the RoRos  I got the idea that was all included.   
  The way they mentioned the Hotels sort of implied that at least some of that my on my dime.    I assumed fuel and food  were also my dime.  Nobody mentioned Tolls.  Nothing was mentioned about insurance.  I'd assume the AAA. Probably has a deal.  

In reply to frenchyd :

No    You don't want t to buy from England when you are in the EU.  So many new taxes and tariffs to enjoy.  As well as shipping delays.  Thanks to brexit.  Buy from inside the eu and it'll be easy. 
 

Also. Generally stuff moves slower in Europe. So small repairs can take more time than expected.  If you're with a group, I'd want some sort of breakdown type insurance coverage with an onward travel coverage.  This would cover you to get your car into a shop and get it repaired while you continue on in a rental car.   Better to finish the journey in a rental Renault or vw than spend your time waiting for some slow moving Spanish mechanic swap a clutch.  Becuse they're on lunch break every 30 minutes and then with a cigarette break every 15 minutes after that. 
 

you will also want to look into travel health insurance.  https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/international-travel/before-you-go/your-health-abroad/insurance-providers-overseas.html

Sounds like the perfect opportunity to sell a car...

Step 1. Buy desirable American car

Step 2. Cruise ship it to Europe and travel for 2 months

Step 3. Sell car to pre-arranged buyer for big profit

Step 4. Fly home

I haven't seriously looked at this in the last couple years but it was a legitimate thing that could be pulled off like 5 years ago considering what American muscle cars were selling for at auction here only to be shipped over to Europe and the Middle East. At the time the math was working out to the car profit being able to cover at least 2 or 3 months of traveling modestly as long as you weren't trying to road trip daily. 

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :

There is no mechanic as familiar with the car I've owned for 60 years. As myself.  No one!    I've vintage raced it over 20 times  I totally restored it myself leaving absolutely nothing to anyone else. 
   In addition most of the Bolts etc are Whitworth.  So they would need to borrow my tools. .   
  Why would I ever wait for someone to fix it for me?