Tom1200 said:
I checked the SCCA RunOffs for Laguna.
T1 Mustang on pole with a 1:34. I used T1 because they are still production car based.
E-production Miata was 1:37, it's still a miata (read non tube frame)
The aforementioned V8 powered miata being on 200tw tires with R-compound tires is theoretically" of a 1:37.
Basically a V8 miata, being no more fussy than a Spec miata, is pretty much capable of the same lap times as a full race miata but not as fast as a race prepped V8 production car.
Naturally this is a total Apples to Orangutans comparison but at least I can give someone a very generalized comparison.
Note that the 1:39 that Codrus quoted was at an HPDE day. It was not a qualifying session and there was significant traffic that included Spec Miatas. You can assume that pole position at the runoffs is one hero lap under ideal traffic conditions in the fastest car with the fastest driver. I would call the differences so great as to be basically useless.
There is a pretty well-prepped V8 Miata that runs in a midwest endurance series and has for a few years. If you can track down those times, they might give you some decent comparative numbers.
Assuming this was the full 3.27 course at VIR a 1:58 is hauling.
RunOffs: T1 Mustang ran 2:14.413,Spec Miata was 2:16.459 and the fastest E-Prod Miata ran a 2:03.
I watched the on board from the 3rd place F500 car, his trap speeds were 144mph and he was turning 1:58s. A F500 is pulling 2Gs in a corner................that must have been a hella fast turbo miata.
At the end of the day, There are very few V8 miatas that are built to the highest level.
Ryan has set a good bar for V6 miatas with his TT car and but one of the fastest TT cars has been a 2.5L Turbo NC with Jensen Little's beast. He beat the 2018 NASA Championship SM qualifying time at COTA by over 26 second with his run at the 2019 super lap battle. (2:16 vs 2:42 rounded)
I am sure if I would have stripped and caged Betty when I had her and added some aero and 315 hoosiers like Jenson's car, It would be in range between Jenson and Ryan if someone one other than myself was driving it....
Keith I did say apples to orangutans...............
Tom1200 said:
Keith I did say apples to orangutans...............
since that's the topic of discussion; and after reading this thread... I'm interested in seeing the lap times between a SpecMiata (?) and a D-Type Jag
sleepyhead the buffalo said:
Tom1200 said:
Keith I did say apples to orangutans...............
since that's the topic of discussion; and after reading this thread... I'm interested in seeing the lap times between a SpecMiata (?) and a D-Type Jag
How about an F2003-GA? :)
In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :
The Spec Miata record here at Road Atlanta is 1:42.2, which was a flyer. But Marc Gené's lap in the same Ferrari F1 car as the above video was an 1:01.2. Having driven this track a bunch his onboard video looks like it's on fast-forward.
That F1 car is 70 seconds a lap faster than the Spec Miata lap record, can you imagine being lapped every other lap!
Amazing discussion on lap times references very few lap times. I imagine that's because V8 Miatas are all over the map when it comes to lap times compared to spec Miatas which will fall in a given range depending on the track. It's going to come down to who built the car, how well it was prepared for the track and who is driving. Needless to say the potential of a V8 Miata would be a lot higher, but most V8 Miata's I've ever seen were also driven on the street which add tons of compromise to lap times.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
Amazing discussion on lap times references very few lap times.
No doubt. On the one hand, "Spec Miata" gives you a very specific window of horsepower, suspension and tire. Since it's a club racing class, it's pretty easy to find representative lap times online. On the other hand, "V8 Miata" wildly unspecific--what engine, transmission, rear-end, what suspension, what tire? And since there is no V8 Miata club racing class, one has to guesstimate 'best laps' based on youtube videos or owner's self-reported lap times from their HPDE sessions. A seasoned Pro driver might be able to beat the local Specia Miata track record by maybe a tenth or two, but would likely have no problem beating John Q Public's V8 Miata HPDE lap time by many seconds.
nderwater said:
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:
Amazing discussion on lap times references very few lap times.
No doubt. On the one hand, "Spec Miata" gives you a very specific window of horsepower, suspension and tire. Since it's a club racing class, it's pretty easy to find representative lap times online. On the other hand, "V8 Miata" wildly unspecific--what engine, transmission, rear-end, what suspension, what tire? And since there is no V8 Miata club racing class, one has to guesstimate 'best laps' based on youtube videos or owner's self-reported lap times from their HPDE sessions. A seasoned Pro driver might be able to beat the local Specia Miata track record by maybe a tenth or two, but would likely have no problem beating John Q Public's V8 Miata HPDE lap time by many seconds.
Exactly. "Spec Miata" is very rigidly defined, and people always quote the SM lap record which means the fastest the fastest SM has ever gone with the fastest SM driver on the perfect day.
V8 Miata is...a Miata with more cylinders.
I don't run a lap timer at HPDE days and I don't claim to be a hot shoe, but I can tell you that SMs are pretty easy to shed when I'm running with them at Laguna Seca. Putting a good driver in my car would demolish the SM times pretty handily, even if it was limited to SM cornering speeds.
Kieth as I stated earlier, the Spec Miata is abundant so people are familiar with it. That familiarity is what generated the question and hence my post. So based on the couple of posts here I can give the average person who asks a rough percentage. Those folks aren't as granular as we are so they won't get bogged down as with the details.
As for the merits of SM:
25 years ago I raced a Showroom Stock C Miata (the car was well set up and had finished in the top 5 at the RunOffs), it was fun but no one would actually choose to track a car in this trim if they were the least bit serious. Same goes for Spec Miata, it's a great race class but I wouldn't run a HPDE only car in SM trim as there are better set ups.
I make the comment about driving my Datsun, that once you turn into the corner, if your not a passenger all the way through the apex out to the exit kerb, you're not trying hard enough. This style seems to be the case with SM as well. That level of aggression is not always welcome at HPDE events as very few drivers can mange that lap after lap without going off the road.
Specs are a great metric for comparison. It's a highly developed class with very close racing that has been everywhere, so it makes for a good baseline. It's the other side that's weak.
My own car has run two LS engines. One of them gives me an extra 15 mph on the back straight at High Plains Raceway. No other changes, just the engine swap from a tuned 5.3 to a crate 6.2. And of course, that's just one car. That's not being granular, that's simply acknowledging that there's a big range of what "V8 Miata" means.
If you're trying to impress people who don't really care about anything other than "they must be super fast!", use the "four times the power and no slower in the corners" comparison. That usually works. It ignores the fact that a Monster Miata running a stock 5.0 is probably making half that power, of course.
When I say granular that's relative to the average car guy who has some knowledge but, unlike us doesn't realize what a broad statement a V8 Miata is. The person who asked me isn't a Joe Dirt type, they're just not as knowledgeable as we are.
