Cutting springs - (cut twice and still too low)

OK, I'm embarking on a little project here.

Useless backstory: I've got a 2002 Protege5 for fun daily driver status with eibach prokit springs and the struts have finally given out up front. I stumbled on to a set of Mazdaspeed Protege racing beat springs. I've got newer struts to go in and am going to swap out the Eibachs for the MSP springs since it's just a daily and I can sell the Eibachs to help get springs for my E30.

Problem: Others have tried installing MSP springs and nobody tries anymore because the rear ends up 1/2" lower than the front and it looks "odd".

My Goal: Make the front match the rear by lowering it 1/2" to get a nice even stance. The springs are linear and stiffer than OEM, and would end up being a tad higher than the Eibachs which is not a bad thing for daily driving and keeping the struts alive.

The solution: Cut the front springs. How would I determine how much to cut off? I figure a 1/2 coil should do it but don't want a situation where that ends up being way too low and I can't go back. Should I just do 1/4 coil at a time? do lots of deinstalling and reinstalling. Any way to tell the compressed height of the spring after removing 1/2 coil? Only looking for 1/2" max decrease installed height.

I've got my sawzall and wd-40 ready

Lift it, pull a wheel off, then lift with a jack on the suspension so the hub is at wheel center height, compressing the spring to what it would be like if the wheel was on, on the ground. Measure from one coil to the next. Whatever that height is, is how much removing one full coil will lower the car. If you want half that height, cut half a coil. You get the idea.

I just cut the springs on my Sonoma and the coil to coil distance was 2". I cut one coil and got 2" lower, even though the coil flattened out at the top.

Cut slowly. You don't want to add alot of heat, springs don't like that. I did mine with a cut-off wheel, a little bit at a time, dunking it in water to keep it cool.

Struts, isn't it? Cutting off one "dead" coil would lower it approximately the thickness of the dead coil. Possibly a touch more. Struts are somewhat predictable that way.

The double-wishbone of the Sonoma will drop much more per coil than the strut front end would.

Drive it for a while before whacking, it may settle in and level out.

Dan

914Driver wrote: Drive it for a while before whacking, it may settle in and level out. Dan

Not going to happen.

The MSP has a different (higher) rear perch height than any of the other proteges or aftermarket shocks. If you had MSP shocks it would ride at the correct height. You could also try shimming the perch in the rear to get the correct height.

if you have room between the upper spring perch/hat and the strut bearing you could modify the mounting point of the spring hat to lower the front of the car without cutting springs.

I did this to the upper perches on my E30 and brought the front end down just over 1/2".

I like the position the rear sits from other people's pics, it's almost the same as the Eibachs. I plan on using a sawzall with a good metal cutting blade and WD-40. I don't want too much heat in them as you said.

I like what you did with the E30 hats. I need to look into that. I have no welder but that looks like a great option. I'll look at shimming the rear but I'm not sure I can do that. I have a set of struts already so I'm trying to avoid spending real money for MSP struts.

moxnix wrote: If you had MSP shocks it would ride at the correct height

Shocks have nothing to do with establishing ride height. Ride height establishes what length shock is required, however.

RealMiniDriver wrote:

moxnix wrote: If you had MSP shocks it would ride at the correct height

Shocks have nothing to do with establishing ride height. Ride height establishes what length shock is required, however.

That actually depends on the shock/spring design. On cars with separate springs and shocks that might be true(I don't know anything about those type) but on car like the miata (GRM demands that a miata be used as an example) it uses a coilover shock and the perch height on that along with the spring determines the final height of the car (Koni's for the NA come with 3 different perch heights available)

On the protege they are actually MacPherson struts not shocks like I said but the perch height on the strut and spring length/rate still determine the final ride height.

The MSP spring perch is mounted a bit higher up on the strut than the OEM Protege5 spring perch. That's why the comment about the MSP struts being needed.

The difference in ride height from stock to this new height will not require shorter struts. The OEM struts will still be in their effective range.

But yes, your comment makes sense if I were starting from scratch.

True, struts and coilovers are different than seperate spring/shock. I've only messed with coils and leafs on my truck and rubber cones on my mini, both vehicles with seperate shocks. :grin:

don't get me started on rubber mini cones! :evil:

Those things were a paint to get off, but the sawzall did the job eventually. Put coils on a friends mini, he didn;t buy the adjustable rear trumpets so it was a real treat to get those together and was not a fun ride home for him.

http://www.auskellian.com/paul/links_files/spring%20free%20length%20calculator_v7.xls

Nomad wrote: Others have tried installing MSP springs and nobody tries anymore because they aren't significantly stiffer than what came on the car stock.

Fixed

I don't think you'll be happy going back to a stock spring. You've already got a set of springs that do what you want, why are you trying to make springs for a different car/shock combo work?

PS: I've got s-techs on my p5 with stock shocks. Pretty low and still a tolerable ride.

Referring back to my useless backstory section. I can sell the Eibachs and buy springs for my E30.

The P5 is a commuter that is fun to drive, but it's short on potential.

Nomad wrote: don't get me started on rubber mini cones! :evil: Those things were a paint to get off, but the sawzall did the job eventually. Put coils on a friends mini, he didn;t buy the adjustable rear trumpets so it was a real treat to get those together and was not a fun ride home for him.

I ditched the rubber cones for coils, too.

canoe struck

canoe strike round 2

ditchdigger wrote: if you have room between the upper spring perch/hat and the strut bearing you could modify the mounting point of the spring hat to lower the front of the car without cutting springs. I did this to the upper perches on my E30 and brought the front end down just over 1/2".

I've done this to my old 280Z and my 320i. A 1/2" is about all you'll get though. You can usually find a machine shop to do it, I think it was somewhere between $80 and $100 on the 320i (for the Z, I knew somebody who had a metal manufacturing facility - free!).

You could also do some bone yard shopping, see if you can find something with a lower height to fit. I want to say I saw somewhere that E46 strut hats fit E30s, and drop the front 1/2" or so, so the idea is not unprecedented....