Daily driver lockers

Hola guappos,

I've decided to keep the Cherokee around for yet another year. (It is without a doubt my most valiant steed to date.)

I don't go wheeling but I do go "exploring." I think I would really benefit from a decent set of lockers.

Since it is my daily, I need something relatively transparent. If I could swing it, I'd dump money on elockers or some other manually actuating locker, but I'd be looking at $1000 per axle. The benefit to this for exploring is I can leave them off and use them to remove me from a hairy situation. These really are the answer but I can't swallow the cost.

For what it's worth, my axles are Dana 30 front and Chrylser 8.25 rear.

There's a lot of claims out there, things like, "Aussie lockers installed in the front are just like open diffs when you're in RWD" which I'm not sure are legitimate or not.

Any GRM budgeted items that will lend themselves well to this application?

Throw a lunchbox locker in the rear, and call it a day.

With manual front hubs, an Aussie locker up front will be undetectable in 2-wheel-drive, because the front differential won't be moving with the hubs unlocked.

It's better traction-wise to put it in the rear, but then you'll have to deal with it all the time.

I have a Lokka in the rear axle on my Trooper. I love it, but it is loud and it requires a different driving style. Easily the best off-road modification I've done, though.

I run a Spartan Locker in the front of the Samurai. Day to day it's fine because the hubs are unlocked and the diff isn't moving. Most of the time it's fine even with the hubs locked. Once in a while it will stick locked. Backing up a few feet usually solves that.

Engage the 4WD and all bets are off. With manual steering, you better have Popeye arms. I'm installing power steering to solve that problem.

No manual front hubs in the XJ. :(

Another option is something I can slip in for summer and slip out for winter. I say this because it seems that a lot of options would be upsetting to drive on snowy corners.

Snow!? Do not put an auto locker in the rear!

I'd suggest a limited slip front and rear, or a locker and manual hubs up front, or spring for a proper air locker.

I have had a Powertrax Lock-Right in the puny D35 of my Jeep TJ since '01-ish.

You get used to the click-click-click-click-click-click.... when taking slow corners, very noticeable with the top down, still heard with soft top up. Sometimes it won't "unlock" and you'll drag a tire, chirp, chirp, chirp.

Sometimes, very rarely, you'll have done something it doesn't like, like rolling backwards, then popping the trans into drive. Then it'll scare the bajeezus out of you with a loud violent "BANG" while jerking the whole vehicle. You'll think "holly E36 M3" I broke an axle, but it was really just the locker not fully "locked," giving way to the weight of the vehicle. I've had it happen in a sharp turn once or twice too, usually tight parking lot maneuvers on pavement with plenty of traction.

Most folks with the longer wheelbase vehicles are fine with them in the rear even in wet/snow/icy conditions. I'd do like stated above, a lunch-box locker in the rear, and open diff front. No more "exploring" than you're doing the locker in just the rear will give you plenty of traction to get you where ever you'll want to go.

• Lee

A locker, in the rain, in a TJ will make you E36 M3 your britches at how fast/easy it will spin on 35x14's. Ive never been in anything that wants to flex, rotate, and bang/pop/click more than my Dad's Jeep. Thing's wild. Real fun pulling an inside tire while turning at low speed/high torque though.

I keep eyeballing a Torsen for the rear of my 2wd explorer for the same type of driving.

I won't swear to this, but I seem to remember that a Torsen requires both tires to have some traction for it to work properly. If one tire had no load, it had the tendency to act like a open differential.

I've already started saving my pennies for front and rear air lockers. At $1000 a piece, it will be a while.

Then you step on the brakes enough for the Torsion to start working again.

I ran a lunchbox locker on the rear of a 2wd truck for a while. Personally, I hated it. Not sure but the thing didn't contribute to the wreck that took the truck out.

Mine only freely clicked in turns if I was coasting. Everything had to be neutrally loaded for it to freewheel. Give it the slightest gas, or roll off the throttle, and it would lock. Banging the truck around, lurching and barking the tires. Lovely.

It would lock when I would hit the gas, or when I decelerated with the engine. A load in either direction locked it. Just what I wanted, a locked rear with every engine braking. Again, made turning delightful. Reversing while turning was also entertaining.

Bonus points, hard braking. It's a truck, it's prone to locking a rear wheel when you brake hard. Torque imbalance, it would lock the entire rear end up. Happy pogo-stick time, as the rear end would now slam up and down. Would do this frequently if you applied the brakes in a turn, probably because of the rotational difference.

True, it did give me more traction. Still not as much as a 4x4, but certainly better than an open differential did. Around the farm and such, it worked ok, especially if I was off the pavement. Off pavement you didn't feel it as harshly. Around town, it was obnoxious. On the highway, it was hateful. As a daily driver, I would have to list it as perhaps the worse modification I ever did to anything.

In reply to foxtrapper:

And that is why I put mine in the front.

On a budget, I'd look at picking up a rusty parts Jeep that already has something installed. Steal the axles and part out the rest.

On a street-driven truck, a manual locker will soon pay itself off in savings on axle repairs. It's also better offroad because you can go in with the axles unlocked and lock them when you start to have trouble, making it more difficult for you to get stuck.

Either that or put a clutch-type LSD in there.

I would save up for a selectable locker for the rear first, then maybe the front on down the road. That's the plan with my XJ. Sometimes you do see them come up for sale used, but you really have to act fast. I missed out on a parts cherokee that had ARBs front and rear....it sold for $500!!! I almost lost my mind when I didn't get to it in time. A huge bonus to the ARBs is onboard air.

bigdaddylee82 wrote: I have had a Powertrax Lock-Right in the puny D35 of my Jeep TJ since '01-ish. You get used to the click-click-click-click-click-click.... when taking slow corners, very noticeable with the top down, still heard with soft top up. Sometimes it won't "unlock" and you'll drag a tire, chirp, chirp, chirp. Sometimes, very rarely, you'll have done something it doesn't like, like rolling backwards, then popping the trans into drive. Then it'll scare the bajeezus out of you with a loud violent "BANG" while jerking the whole vehicle. You'll think "holly E36 M3" I broke an axle, but it was really just the locker not fully "locked," giving way to the weight of the vehicle. I've had it happen in a sharp turn once or twice too, usually tight parking lot maneuvers on pavement with plenty of traction. Most folks with the longer wheelbase vehicles are fine with them in the rear even in wet/snow/icy conditions. I'd do like stated above, a lunch-box locker in the rear, and open diff front. No more "exploring" than you're doing the locker in just the rear will give you plenty of traction to get you where ever you'll want to go. - Lee

+1 I ran a Powertrax Lock Right in a 2wd Sonoma. Winter driving was fine, maybe even a little fun. Off road, it was actually useful. I used it to scout wild blueberry fields. Turned a useless pile of e36m3 into the best 2wd pickup ever. Real easy to install, too.

I remember taking it to a tire shop once, and the "mechanic", kept trying to convince me that the rear end was shot because of the clicking. Lolol

I have been very happy with the Detroit Truetrac I put in my Sierra. I have had it in the truck for about 120,000 miles now and it works very well. Much smoother then the factory locker that the truck came with. It has also already outlasted the original locker and it has been abused.

There's no real replacement for a selectable locker. I had an Aussie locker in the rear of my 87 Toyota 4x4 and I didn't mind it too much. The truck was stick shift so I just put the clutch in to coast into parking spots. No biggie. They are noisy though. I've heard that they are much worse with an automatic as there's no way to unload the drive train when you want to unlock the rear. The selectable ones are fantastic. My montero had the factory air locker and it was fantastic. I'd save up and get a selectable over a lunchbox locker.

You say you don't go wheeling, just exploring. What makes you think you need a locker? Is there a ton of mud where you do or something?

I have been cruising the expedition websites and everyone keeps talking about lockers, but not Limited Slip Differentials. It would seem that putting an LSD in the front and rear would be easier to live with and you wouldn't have to deal with all the effects of the various types of lockers.
However, I am yet to see a single build that goes the LSD route. What am I missing? I want to build something cheap that will do what a cheap dual sport ADV bike could do without all the hospital bills.

I think the reason you don't see many LSDs in the offroad scene is that they cost about the same as a full locker (if not more in the case of the lunchbox lockers) and don't make as much traction.

thatsnowinnebago wrote: I think the reason you don't see many LSDs in the offroad scene is that they cost about the same as a full locker (if not more in the case of the lunchbox lockers) and don't make as much traction.

thats what ive always understood it as, lsd can still let 1 tire not spin given the right situation, where a locker is guaranteed to spin both

That makes a lot of sense, so I need to think if it as cost per tractions + street ability.

A selectable locker is 100% invisible when it's off. And in all honesty, you can get to a ton of places without lockers, at least if it's dry. I see you're in South Carolina so I imagine you've got some pretty good mud right?

Down here in the low country, its wet; really wet. When there is a drought, its still wet. I had a 1 wheel drive volvo when I lived in upper state NY; since then every time I could, I bought a car with an LSD even when I lived in florida. I will just keep my eyes out on craigslist and see what I can find.
This is really all because I can't afford to put another car on the race track (SSC Mini was my last very fast with a sudden stop track car) can't afford the hospital time from an ADV bike...so figured an exploring cage would scratch the itch for mechanical fun.