First let me acknowledge this topic is overdone so I apologize for posting another thread. Having said that, I did not want to hijack someone else's thread.
In very early 2020, I am going to purchase a new daily driver that I want to double as an autocross/HPDE car. I am agnostic to RWD vs FWD vs AWD, just need a great platform that I can drive and enjoy.
I am looking for recommendations from current owners etc.
Some I am considering are (all are MY 2020)
- VW Golf GTI
- Toyota 86
- Subaru WRX
- Ford Mustang Ecoboost Fastback (base car, no options)
Feel free to suggest others. Look forward to recommendations and discussion
How is your consumable budget?
AWD, Turbo, or heavy will increase your consumable cost.
Of the x4 you mentioned, the FRS will be the easiest/cheapest to maintain.
Personally, I would suggest a late model year NC Miata Club.
In reply to NordicSaab :
Great point on consumable budget and impact of turbo/AWD. With all the other financial obligations of homeownership and kids in college, I need to keep my annual budget for consumables in the 3-5K range, lower is certainly better, I have been leaning toward the FRS due to NA power, ease of maintenance and general balance. My biggest hangup was the lower power output of the FRS but there are other ways to compensate.
I think the v6 1le Camaro is a steal, you can find them "used" like new pretty easily. Just check it's lightning lap times. That's a lot of car for the money, stock for stock probably one of the fastest on track of the ones you mentioned.
In reply to red_stapler :
That made me laugh!
Dave M
Reader
10/27/19 7:52 a.m.
Are you doing more track days or autocross? The GTI is a way better practical car than the 86, but it's going to be less fun around the track (although fast, particularly modded).
If you're sticking to new cars I'd also consider the Veloster and Civic Si.
If you care most about lap times, a used something fast, probably a Vette, is the way to go.
That makes it an easy choice:
New - care about the track the most - 86
New - care about everything else - GTI
Used - fastest Vette you can afford
The 1LE camaro in any engine config keeps its factory warranty even with track use as long as the car remains stock.
In reply to red_stapler :
Yes, definitely an LOL moment
In reply to accordionfolder :
Another great suggestion, definitely a worthy consideration
Wanting a fun, track capable car that I could drive through the winters around here (reasonably big dumps of snow, icy, hilly) lead me to a 2015 WRX. I've only done one track day with it so far and it was rainy, which helped me pass all kinds of cars and I had a blast. On a hot day it'll need more oil and water cooling, so I bought an aluminum radiator and parts to put together my own oil cooler setup. I added brake ducts as a precaution and installed race pads, SS lines and high temp fluid. A bonus for me was that the track wheels and tires from my RX8 fit.
It's not an ideal track car, but for casual use, it works and it's a better overall solution for the 99% of the rest of my life than my former 2010 RX8 R3 in the summer and 2005 ZX3 Focus in the winter combo. It gets good mileage to boot. With a different set of circumstances I might have gone another way.
Dave M said:
Are you doing more track days or autocross? The GTI is a way better practical car than the 86, but it's going to be less fun around the track (although fast, particularly modded).
If you're sticking to new cars I'd also consider the Veloster and Civic Si.
If you care most about lap times, a used something fast, probably a Vette, is the way to go.
That makes it an easy choice:
New - care about the track the most - 86
New - care about everything else - GTI
Used - fastest Vette you can afford
Excellent points but I already have a 4Runner for praticality so I am more interested in a car that is fun to drive and not a killer to maintain. I had not considered a used Vette but that could be an interesting option as well.
Soon many options to consider
Another vote for the 86, although I might be a little biased...
It's a real sweetheart of a chassis, though, phenominally well balanced and easy to drive. Having driven a WRX pretty much back to back with one, it's striking how much lighter and more nimble the 86 feels in comparison - a 'pure' sports car as compared to a hotrodded sedan. It's not going to throw you back in the seat or feel as fast as a turbo or V8 car will, you have to wind it out a bit and the 3-4k rpm torque dip is noticeable and occasionally annoying, but I don't think it feels anywhere near as slow as many would have you believe either. Just drive one before you decide it's not fast enough, I doubt you'll find speed an issue.
I've had my '15 FRS for just under 2 years and put over 30k miles on it now. It's my year round daily. No issues to date, just routine maintenance, and it's been an easy car to work on so far, save for the boxer configuration making the plug change a bit difficult. You do notice the relative lack of sound insulation a bit, but it's not obnoxious by any means. I still find it a nice place to spend time, the interior is well put together and ergonomically works really well for me. On stock suspension it rides just fine, although I'm going to need dampers at some point in the not too distant future. I average around 29-30mpg commuting on 35-55mph back roads.
Snrub
HalfDork
10/27/19 9:32 a.m.
I've driven and considered all of those.
GTI - It's pretty good, nice interior, feels grown up. I felt it lacked a bit of sensation of speed. I think it makes a strong case for someone who might consider a luxury car.
86 - Best steering I've ever experienced, good sense of immediacy, nimble, good sensation of speed. I hate the engine character and the way the power is delivered. I drove FRS and a BRZ with lower than OEM grip tires and I found the back end tends to step out at low limits. I really wanted to like it more.
WRX - It was okay. Similar idea to the GTI, but a little less sporting and not as nice inside. I'd be tempted to pick a GTI over it.
Mustang Ecoboost - It's okay, the suspension felt to me like it could work a bit better. The power band is like an inverted V, peaks very early and falls off hard. Base car interior is a bit cheap. You might be different, but in a sporting machine, I find over time this size of vehicle becomes less satisfying.
My top pick:
ND - This is sports car incarnate, just sublime. I'm not sure if the space would work as a daily driver for you, but if possible, it's worth making compromises for.
Regarding a GM "track warranty" - no where in writing does it say there is a track warranty, in fact only the opposite can be found in writing. The "track warranty" has only been mentioned through media interviews, etc. We've talked about this on here before. I had a hideous experience with a GM warranty (not track related) with 111 days in service without a resolution. I read a news piece recently about a guy who took his ~9 month old GM into a dealership 50 TIMES and the language provided was very familiar. Maybe they decide to do the right thing and permit a given track related warranty claim, maybe your claim negatively affects GM's financial performance and they decide to do what they've done to others.
Out of those I would go for a Subaru BRZ (styling preference over the 86). But really I'd go for a Miata that I'd equip with an aftermarket roll bar.
If you have a practical need for the extra doors or interior space the GTI is a fantastic car, and it would be fine on a track from the start, but you'll probably want to throw some extra money at it to tighten up the suspension.
The key to the GTI is smooth inputs, if you're ham fisted the car will understeer a lot. For a FWD car they are very good at getting power down at corner exit and are very responsive to lift throttle mid corner corrections. Corner entry handling while trail braking leans gently towards understeer, but it's very easy to manage and keep the car on line. It's a willing dance partner that's very easy to manage at the limit and will not bite you if you make a mistake.
Hmmm, how about another contender? The Veloster N seems like a great car for the dollars. Plus off throttle crackles and electronic adjustable dampers and diff.
Dave M
Reader
10/27/19 1:48 p.m.
In reply to Snrub :
I mean, it's not on his list but you're right, get an ND over an 86.
Not sure about the new GTI's, they've ummm changed a lot in recent years but my MkV was a lot of fun around the track when you don't try and drive it like some overpriced Mustang.
Furious_E said:
Another vote for the 86, although I might be a little biased...
It's a real sweetheart of a chassis, though, phenominally well balanced and easy to drive. Having driven a WRX pretty much back to back with one, it's striking how much lighter and more nimble the 86 feels in comparison - a 'pure' sports car as compared to a hotrodded sedan. It's not going to throw you back in the seat or feel as fast as a turbo or V8 car will, you have to wind it out a bit and the 3-4k rpm torque dip is noticeable and occasionally annoying, but I don't think it feels anywhere near as slow as many would have you believe either. Just drive one before you decide it's not fast enough, I doubt you'll find speed an issue.
I've had my '15 FRS for just under 2 years and put over 30k miles on it now. It's my year round daily. No issues to date, just routine maintenance, and it's been an easy car to work on so far, save for the boxer configuration making the plug change a bit difficult. You do notice the relative lack of sound insulation a bit, but it's not obnoxious by any means. I still find it a nice place to spend time, the interior is well put together and ergonomically works really well for me. On stock suspension it rides just fine, although I'm going to need dampers at some point in the not too distant future. I average around 29-30mpg commuting on 35-55mph back roads.
Great summary, thank for the perspective and recommendations. I am positive the 86/BRZ is the way to go. Thank you to all for the insights
lnlds
Reader
10/27/19 10:57 p.m.
Dave M said:
In reply to Snrub :
I mean, it's not on his list but you're right, get an ND over an 86.
Not OP but whats the consensus on a street safe roll bar? I definitely value doublewishbones immensely but not enough to risk cracking my noggin in a dual duty street/de car.
Dave M
Reader
10/28/19 7:14 a.m.
In reply to lnlds :
No such thing? Also doesn't the ND have street-safe rollover protection built in?
ND Miata if you want to see the world as you go flying through it with a giant grin on your face, V6 Camaro 1LE if you don't.
Some cars I recommend:
Camaro V6 1LE: These can be had new, with MASSIVE discounts. One by me is marked like 6K+ off sticker with a manual. Needs nothing to be fast out of the box, move to a square tire setup when possible.
GT86: Not too much to say about these. You should add an oil cooler ($500) and camber bolts immediately ($26). The car understeers like crazy without increasing the front negative camber.
NC3 Club Miata: Another great choice, add a rollbar ($500).
ND Miata: Again, just add a rollbar ($500). ND2 generation has a greatly improved engine that revs out much higher.
It's worth noting that the GT86 is tied with the NC3 club as the slowest here. 1LE being the quickest by miles.
