Mazdax605 wrote: I half jokingly told my wife that I was going to put a flame paint job on the mighty Sienna.
Carl flamed one of his Odysseys. For real.
Mazdax605 wrote: I half jokingly told my wife that I was going to put a flame paint job on the mighty Sienna.
Carl flamed one of his Odysseys. For real.
I don't get the "I could never drive something that boring, soul-sucking, etc." stuff. Everybody need an appliance. It's sorta like saying "I'll never have a stove because it isn't exciting"
That's a surprisingly good analogy because just like a stove, it CAN be exciting when you throw off the reins of conventional wisdom and start using it for things it's not supposed to do.
They also both make great storage cabinets when they're not working! 
Stefan wrote: This should make owning a minivan less embarrassing: Turbovanman! If you want it to be a 5-speed again, there are people local with the necessary parts (A-523 5-speed, etc.) to put it back to being a manual again.
Wow. After reading the ad that thing sounds like an amazing value.
Since I made the soul sucking comment I feel I need to clarify. Mini vans are great, I have no issues at all with them as a vehicle. It the FWD part that I loathe. The only acceptable FWD vehicles are original Minis and I'll let Saab slide as well.
Nick (Bo) Comstock wrote: Since I made the soul sucking comment I feel I need to clarify. Mini vans are great, I have no issues at all with them as a vehicle. It the FWD part that I loathe. The only acceptable FWD vehicles are original Minis and I'll let Saab slide as well.
I agree but fwd has come in handy many times for me in the northern winters. However I can see why anyone outside this nasty climate would not want or need fwd.
It's kinda of sad that something like the momkhanna van is arguably the most public example of a fwd minivan "righted" to rwd with some healthy v8 power.
And as the owner of a daily driven 1991 Caravan (all stock-for now), I to can vouch for the versatility and practicality of such a vehicle. Obviously it's in the eye of the beholder but it's not souless to me at all.
Nick (Bo) Comstock wrote: Since I made the soul sucking comment I feel I need to clarify. Mini vans are great, I have no issues at all with them as a vehicle. It the FWD part that I loathe. The only acceptable FWD vehicles are original Minis and I'll let Saab slide as well.
Except without FWD, you'd lose a lot of space and basically make them useless.
Much like SUV's
To each their own, but you're kinda missing the point and if you need excitement, add a hitch and tow something small and fun like a kart or a motard to the track.
Nick (Bo) Comstock wrote: Since I made the soul sucking comment I feel I need to clarify. Mini vans are great, I have no issues at all with them as a vehicle. It the FWD part that I loathe. The only acceptable FWD vehicles are original Minis and I'll let Saab slide as well.
FWD is what allows that completely flat low floor, making a minivan RWD would reduce the utility of the utility vehicle. You'd lose interior volume, or gas mileage if you made it taller to compensate, which is one of the Minivan's strong points, it's a living room that gets 20+ on the highway.
Speaking of FWD making minivans better at their job....Is it wrong that I've actually thought about cutting the back of a minivan off at the B-pillar, and mating it to a glorified car hauler trailer frame?
Driven5 wrote: Speaking of FWD making minivans better at their job....Is it wrong that I've actually thought about cutting the back of a minivan off at the B-pillar, and mating it to a glorified car hauler trailer frame?
Like this?
I survived many Winters up north in RWD vehicles, including mini and regular size vans, 2wd pickup trucks and F-bodies. The only time I ever had any trouble was in a FWD Buick Riviera, 3 fresh inches over frozen hard pack, absolutely useless couldn't even get out of the neighborhood. Gave up on that and hopped in my Trans Am and had no problems that day. If I currently lived where it snowed there is no way in the world I would want a FWD vehicle. You couldn't pay me to take one out in inclement weather.
My GMC Safari was far from useless, didn't have a crazy high load floor and got decent enough mileage.
Anyway, I've trolled y'all enough on it. I just wish there was a modern option for a proper RWD mini van.
In reply to eastsidemav:
Damn it, yes! So I'm not totally crazy...Although I did envision adding some paneling to give it a bit more more finished look.
My GMC Safari was far from useless, didn't have a crazy high load floor and got decent enough mileage.
Well yeah, i can see why you'd be ok with a RWD minivan then because i was just about to bring up the safari/astro (and aerostar) as examples of why it's a bad idea!
FWD is absolutely FINE for 85% of the driving everybody does every day. And for the remaining 15% you probably shouldn't be driving a minivan anyway.
Vigo wrote:My GMC Safari was far from useless, didn't have a crazy high load floor and got decent enough mileage.Well yeah, i can see why you'd be ok with a RWD minivan then because i was just about to bring up the safari/astro (and aerostar) as examples of why it's a bad idea!
Really it was a terrific vehicle until I stuffed it under a semi trailer. The aerostar was a turd but the Safari/Astro van were excellent.
Duke wrote: FWD is absolutely FINE for 85% of the driving everybody does every day. And for the remaining 15% you probably shouldn't be driving a minivan anyway.
But being in that 15% can be sooo much fun.
I still kinda want a 1st gen Caravan with boost. I think they look cool if done right and front wheel burnouts are hilarious.
I am generally one that is totally on board with cars that people here consider 'soul sucking'. I'll drive a 20 year old economy car that runs 17s (I DD an automatic Saturn).
I would not be a fan of dailying a minivan. They are all around huge and softly sprung, with a very high seating position. I wouldn't DD a truck or large SUV either. I don't consider any of them soul sucking, and its not an issue of fun - they aren't 'fun', but a DD doesn't have to be. Its that they make me uncomfortable or are a hassle to deal with compared to many other options.
92 T&C 3.3, first van, hand me down from mom, totaled by a deer at 60mph.
00 GC 3.3, moms van, spent considerable time behind the wheel. hightop conversion. comfortable but really should have had the 3.8 with the extra weight I think. I think this gen caravan is a good balance of size and I do like the looks with the sport front bumper.
94 G20 fullsize, 4.3 swb lowtop conversion. Loved the engine and just a dead nuts reliable van. put 100k miles on it over 5 years or so. Lots of road trips.
97 MPV AWD, foul weather vehicle purchase. Had some gremlins but it was still pretty cool. capable awd and nice ground clearance stock. Sold to a GRMer a year and a half ago.
08 Mazda5, The best Mazda3 wagon money can buy. Basically a station wagon with sliding doors which is hard to beat.
13 T&C, moms new van, borrowed it for a day while moving. The T&C is kinda dorky looking but I liked it enough to put the Caravan R/T trim on my radar for the future. Good value for money with the newer vans. Although long term I would be concerned about getting bored with it, a Sienna or Odyssey (and maybe new kia Sedona?) at least has some aftermarket suspension options to get the vans more grounded to the ground.
I used to tow with a series of American station wagons, but after shooting (to put it out of its misery) the last wagon (a Chrysler with 318) at a rest stop on southern Washington, I started in on a long series of minivans, Chrysler and GM, which I liked much better.
When we moved last year I had a bunch of fragile stuff I wouldn't entrust to movers as well as around 300 Rhododendrons and another 50-6- plants and trees that needed moving, so picked up another Chrysler minivan, this time with Stow & Go seats that folded down into the floor. I'd forgotten how useful these cars are! If I had fewer cars here (currently 7) I'd have seriously thought of keeping it for summer running around and hauling stuff (my annual wine trek alone ....)
We have had a Astro, and a couple of odyssey's. both great vans in different ways. Could actually tow something with the Astro, 5k if I remember correctly. The 2011 Honda is just unbelieveably handy, and there are only two of us now.
I owned a 93 caravan when i was 19 because i needed a winter daily while my 4x4 was torn apart. If i could find another one that clean for the price without the 3.0 id drive it! It was a great all around vehicle, junkyard runs and hauling people.
Vigo wrote:My GMC Safari was far from useless, didn't have a crazy high load floor and got decent enough mileage.Well yeah, i can see why you'd be ok with a RWD minivan then because i was just about to bring up the safari/astro (and aerostar) as examples of why it's a bad idea!
Now I'm curious as to what, in your opinion, makes them a bad idea?
Mostly the higher load floor. Step-in and loading height is crucial for vans (as far as people who buy them NEW). But, astros also have cramped footboxes, are even harder to do spark plugs in then v6 caravans which people already complain about (i think they're not bad), get worse mpg, aren't faster, have a higher center of gravity, weigh more, etc.
Really, if the Astro didn't have so much drivetrain and suspension swappage potential with other GMs, i really don't think the enthusiast body at large would be so happy that it was RWD. It doesn't make it better at being a van, it just makes it better at being a project car. But I basically tripled the power of my Caravan on the base model engine (there were 3 different bigger ones!) and still managed to swap in enough suspension crap from other models to have the fastest van AutoX time at the '16 Challenge and beat quite a few non-vans too (about half the field i think?), so those 'easy' swappability advantages have somewhat less affect on me.
I don't think Astros are bad vehicles at all. But i dont think they are as good at being a minivan as any of the FWDs are. I don't begrudge anyone who likes them, but there are good reasons why everyone who built RWD minivans (and there were many!) gave it up and went to FWD.
The first van i ever hauled ass in was my aunt's Astro. We almost rolled it a few times. Good memories.
I drove a friend's Astro once on a roadtrip. After less than an hour my knees were killing me because the pedal offset was so bad.
I'll give you the pedal box. The other issues were not a concern.
I put flames on our 05 Odyssey.
They lasted about a year and a half until the oldest of our 4 children became so embarrassed when my wife picked him up at high school each day, that he tore them off. Now that he is in college and the van has over 220k miles on it I just may do it again. Of course, he is 100% behind it : )
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