I'm sure you can find something on this website that you find attractive. Finding one you can afford may be harder.
I have been in the presence of a few of these boats build in the birthplace of my grandparents; Boyne City, Mi and the boats are AMAZING.
I too have dreamed about boat building. Very similar design wise to what you are thinking with the added ability of skiing/wakeboarding. I would personally want to work with aluminum over wood because I am way more comfortable with metal than woodworking, and I don't want to deal with the added maintenance of wood.
With your design scope in mind I would stay with the inboard engine. Something easy like 350 chevy. I would imagine wrecking yard 350 mercruisers are easy and cheap to come by. Also don't discount the 4.3L V6. I have one in my Chaparral 19 foot bowrider. Plenty of power, easily pulls skiers, does 58 MPH with the Volvo Penta Duo Prop drive. It also gets great mileage. I have never put more than 17 gallons in after a day of cruising and skiing. The only downside is if you really load up the boat. With 8 adults it is noticable. The outdrive brand is up to you, they all have pluses/minuses so pick the one you like. Based on the fact that you really only want to cruise around a jet pump may be the best choice. I would seriously consider buying either a wrecked boat or old boat (cheap) to use as a donor. You can rebuild what you need to for less than buying and adding all the marine specific parts. I saw a boat at the local copart that went for less than a thousand. The hull was destroyed but the engine and outdrive were less than 15 years old, and they got a decent trailer out of it.
Another option that I have considered is buying an old boat and heavily customizing it. Basically find something I liked the shape of the hull. Something that had the right shape and size for the type of boating I want to do. Then tear off the whole top deck down to the stringers. At this point repair anything that needs it. Rebuild the engine and outdrive. Then build from the floor up. You could always cut the vertical sides of the hull to meld into whatever design you were thinking for the top. Seating, windshield, bowrider or not, everything at that point would be up to you and your design abilities. The hull design which provides the performance would already be done. The looks of the boat would be as cool as your imagination. How about a wood top deck for the looks with a fiberglass hull for ease?
Curtis, this piggybacks off what D2W says above. ^^
I get that you want to build your own boat. Is restoring/modifying an older runabout out of the question? Older wood and glass boats in need of love are dirt cheap nowadays, and if the plan is a full resto (you want to build from the ground up) and repower, it's hard to beat the value presented by buying used.
I belong to the Century Boat Club and have a 1964 Century Coronado 21'. On the club's facebook page there's a guy named Dan Weeden who took an aging 1980 Century Arabian, removed a thirsty 454/Vdrive, rebuilt the underlying frame and transom (new stringers, bulkheads etc) in carbon and kevlar, and repowered with a 150hp Evinrude Etec. He was able to remove about 1500lbs from the boat. With the 454 setup, he would get 17gph at 3500 cruise, current consumption with the outboard is 14.26gph at 5600 (!) and only 9.4gph at 4000rpm cruise. The club is the boat equivalent of the Corvette club ("Don't modify it, it was perfect the way it was" etc) but they're coming around. There's a guy that wants to put a cummins 4bt in a ski boat, plus a few other really neat custom projects. You can really use it as a blank canvas to attain your goals
Myself, i'm looking for a mid-80s Century Cardel as the next boat project. They came with a wetbar and fridge setup, picnic table and more seating. Better for cruises and afternoon boatrides. The 64 woody is an awesome ski boat, but wood is a lot of maintenance and it needs bottom repair. I'd love to put aluminum heads and intake on the 440, and electronic ignition. There's a guy who makes adapters to put modern chevy big block heat risers on it, which shed a bunch of weight too.
Btw, if keeping a traditional engine, LS power gets my vote.
I love how the old runabouts look, but I definitely want to take advantage of modern hull designs. Old runabouts are more or less a full-chine, zero deadrise, flat-bottom boat. I had one (kinda) in a 1957 SK runabout. It was built from aluminum, but it excelled at nothing in the performance/ride quality areas.
I'm not too opposed to taking an existing hull and modding the entire top/interior. That would get me the layout I wanted with an existing performance hull. It wouldn't necessarily scratch the itch of building the whole boat from scratch, nor would it necessarily excel at being lighter than any other commercially-produced I/O boat, but it would be a way to get some of the other boxes checked off. I thought about doing that with my 19' Baja, but since the entire hull from the Chines down was 1-1/4" of solid glass, it was still going to be a heavy boat.
D2W, the maintenance part of wood is all but removed with modern epoxies. If (for instance) I wanted to use Birch-faced marine ply, then its a matter of using the right glass cloth, marine epoxy, and a good vacuum to make it look like varnished Birch without the maintenance and fragility of Spar varnish.
But, I suppose a good hull with a wood top could be an option.
Another thing I should mention... the goal is to get a boat that has a performance hull under it, looks classic, and is light enough to tow behind the 67 LeMans convertible. The car will be upgraded with great brakes and an LS powerplant, but it doesn't have a ton of frame or weight to be "in charge" of a large boat. I'm shooting for no more than 3000 lbs for the boat/motor/trailer. My current Ebbtide and former Baja both weighed in around 3500-3700 with the trailer and things like oars, battery, fire extinguisher, etc. They were on the big side for my 96 Impala SS. I don't want the tail wagging the dog. And, of course, lightweight = speed and fuel on the water too.
Thanks, everyone for the input. Looks like maybe an aluminum 6.0L LS could be a good choice. That at least shaves 80 lbs or so from an iron 350 and its pretty power dense without being crazy custom.
In reply to Curtis :
You wrote: .....the goal is to get a boat that has a performance hull under it, looks classic, and is light enough to tow behind the 67 LeMans convertible.
I think a great answer would be a Donzi Sweet 16 as the perfect "classic" or a 4Winns U17 as the cheaper copy .
The last time I brought up this topic, a viable option was a Donzi, but I never found one that I could afford. I would love a Donzi. The vee is a bit deep for my needs, but not sure I want to pay a premium for a runabout and then take a sawzall to the hood to make it a bow rider.
If you're going to sell me on modifying an existing hull with my own top, shoot me some more suggestions. For inspiration, here was my Baja pictured below. I loved the low lines and "squished" look. It looked understated but also looked hot. Pay particular attention to the gunwales from the rub rail up. so much wasted space. It doesn't serve any function except looks. It takes away at least a foot on each side for the sake of looking "neat." Both of my bowriders could be so much more functional if they didn't waste all that space with glass.
If I still had that Baja, I would pull the rub rail, split off the cap, and make gunwales that are about 4" wide and about 1" taller than the rub rail. I always cursed the wasted space of those gunnels being tall and wide. Then I would pull the floor, move the gas tank to the belly, and re-floor it with some stressed-skin Diab foam core laminate. I could probably shave 300 lbs that way and improve the CG. Aluminum LS at about 400hp... just enough cam to wake it up but not cause water reversion. Swap out the Alpha for a Penta so it doesn't chew pinion gears, and a couple 10" subs beside the engine with about 1800 watts.
Grrr. I would have loved that boat.
I really do like the look of the U17/U19 as well as the Donzi sweet 16 (and longer). Talk to me about their performance. It looks (to me) like they engineered a small performance hull for bigger water... that is, it looks like they put about a 26 degree vee up front with a hard transition to a shallower vee in the back. I like the looks, but it also looks like it sacrifices trim and ride so it can be a small cruiser in bigger water.
Would you consider an inline six? That would get you some torque, cut your jacket building efforts in half and give you a little more room to work on the engine. Maybe drop in BMW engine. Spark plug changes would be easy.
Sure, I'd consider an inline 6. The only problem I have with inlines is their relative height. It might be hard to find one with enough displacement that isn't also much taller than a comparable V8 or V6. BMWs also seem to not be very light for their displacement. For instance, an M52 weighs in around 500 while an LS1 weighs in around 460.
Also looked at a V12 BMW 5.0L. Its not dreadfully heavy at 530 (about the same as an SBC with aluminum intake) but gives up displacement potential to the chevy
Thought about a slant 6 for the height reasons, but getting significant torque and power from an old-school engine like a slant means more money per hp than something like an LS1 or M52.
I also have to be careful (if going prop) to make sure the torque is adequate down low. A prop acts like a low-stall converter, so not having enough torque down low could mean slow hole-shot (or in extreme cases, no hole shot since it might not plane). A jet is more like a high-stall converter and is more tolerant of higher hp/lower tq.
I think if I were to adapt an automotive engine to a boat, I would play with the subaru flat 4 and 6. It puts the weight down low and allows for a lower doghouse over the engine.
As far as the height of the I6 goes, I know a lot of boats that used i4s
Why get a deep V for lake use?
Personally I think a outboard is a no brainer unless its a ski/wakeboard boat. Shoot efficiency and reliability wise they are already making the decision tough for larger boats and whether or not to have a diesel inboard. But for a lake, especially compared to an I/O I would go outboard 11 out of 10 times.
Enyar said:Why get a deep V for lake use?
Personally I think a outboard is a no brainer unless its a ski/wakeboard boat. Shoot efficiency and reliability wise they are already making the decision tough for larger boats and whether or not to have a diesel inboard. But for a lake, especially compared to an I/O I would go outboard 11 out of 10 times.
The lakes he's dealing with are often better suited to a deep V because of the chop. Unlike on the ocean, the waves/chop are so much closer together that you don't ride up and down the waves unless you're on something like a wave runner; you just hit each of them before you're done with the last. Flat bottom boat and you get crushed doing that.
Cheap 22' Donzi bow rider but not really a looker. Does run though.
I get what you're saying about the gunwale width. How much of that is to provide structure to keep the hull wall from flexing?
Not sure how much it provides, but probably a fair amount. I think the primary structure comes from the console boxes being anchored to the floor.
In reply to Curtis :
300 horsepower light weight? How about a 4.0 Jaguar engine. It’s unbelievably reliable, all aluminum and relatively compact. Comes with a supercharged option. The GM version of it is bigger at 4.2 liters but parts will be more readily available.
Dude! Found a $1000 Donzi Sweet 16 shell in your neck of the woods! Craigslink
Ad's kind of old, but you know boats don't move fast.
In reply to Curtis :
Have you gone to Bone Yard Boats and checked them out? Dedicated to wood boats but a lot of them are free to a good home.
I love old wood boats and get lost going through their site. Especially in the fall when people are anxious to get their project out of the shed.
I went and search via Google for an old thread here on GRM where I had once posted a pic of a wooden boat I once owned half of. The old GRM thread from 2014
Woody said:Would you consider an inline six? That would get you some torque, cut your jacket building efforts in half and give you a little more room to work on the engine. Maybe drop in BMW engine. Spark plug changes would be easy.
There were some M30 BMW engines specifically sold for marine use back in the day (the M30 was the 'big six' used in everything from the old Bavarias, through the 1980s and early 1990s -5, -6, and -7 cars.) Some years ago there was a marine dealer selling some new old stock ones in the BMW club Roundel magazine; there's also one on display in the museum at the BMW factory in Spartanburg.
I just looked around and found a website dedicated to BMW marine engines: http://www.bmwmarine.org/index.html They have an ad with one for sale, although there's no indication of whether the ad is current or not.
I actually have one of those BMW sixes in an 25' '81 Glasply, complete with out drive. Has less than 200 hours. Complete with the exception of the carb and exhaust manifold. I had it running briefly, but with a rotted exhaust manifold, I couldn't run it for long.
I'm told the BMW made good power, but mine is being replaced with a Volvo Duo-prop and a stroked 350; the $2500 for a stainless exhaust manifold was more than I wanted to spend.
If anyone is interested in the BMW stuff, it could be had for cheap
stuart in mn said:Woody said:Would you consider an inline six? That would get you some torque, cut your jacket building efforts in half and give you a little more room to work on the engine. Maybe drop in BMW engine. Spark plug changes would be easy.
There were some M30 BMW engines specifically sold for marine use back in the day (the M30 was the 'big six' used in everything from the old Bavarias, through the 1980s and early 1990s -5, -6, and -7 cars.) Some years ago there was a marine dealer selling some new old stock ones in the BMW club Roundel magazine; there's also one on display in the museum at the BMW factory in Spartanburg.
I just looked around and found a website dedicated to BMW marine engines: http://www.bmwmarine.org/index.html They have an ad with one for sale, although there's no indication of whether the ad is current or not.
Not only the M30. One of the sailboats I like, The Atlantic City 24 was powered originally by a BMW diesel. I think they have all been repowered with yanmars as the BMW engine was not that good and expensive to fix
My parents spend winter down in lake havasu and my dad has driven boats since he was 12 or 13 years. The family owned a boat dealership in Edmonton. They were a dealer for crestliner and k&c aswell as evinrude engines. They had some interesting stuff they did up.
this is my grandfather with a 18 ft crestliner raider with 2 115 hp engines on the back
they sold k&c eliminators this one has a 115 hp engine later they had one with an omc v8
They had a 12 inch crestliner spoiler with a 115 engine that my dad apparently out ran a well down hot rodder and drag racers 427 boat with.
and a Larson or something like that boat that my friend that I help on the late model got scared riding with my dad it was around 12 inch aswell but apparently a 200 engine.
this is what my dad has now it’s a 2000 26 ft firehawk with a 540 Merlin. He bought it complete about 10 Years ago.
ultraclyde said:Dude! Found a $1000 Donzi Sweet 16 shell in your neck of the woods! Craigslink
Ad's kind of old, but you know boats don't move fast.
Nice. Thanks. Sent him an email. Looking at that outboard configuration, That is ripe for a really low I/O or jet, cut out the splash well, and just make a step up to a swim deck. Run the exhaust risers up into the gunwales.
frenchyd said:In reply to Curtis :
300 horsepower light weight? How about a 4.0 Jaguar engine. It’s unbelievably reliable, all aluminum and relatively compact. Comes with a supercharged option. The GM version of it is bigger at 4.2 liters but parts will be more readily available.
I did say early in the thread that I wanted a Jag XJR for the water. That would really keep the theme.
Put a water pump on it to send cold lake water to the intercooler and I might be able to get away with using the cheap gas they have here at the lake.
frenchyd said:In reply to Curtis :
Have you gone to Bone Yard Boats and checked them out? Dedicated to wood boats but a lot of them are free to a good home.
No, but I will now.
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