Daydreaming about changing cars.

curtis73 wrote: I'm reading back through this thread and dropping my jaw at the level of luxury a person can get these days for around $5k

Wonderful isn't it?

Don't forget the 03/04 M45, styling is a matter of taste but they are very swanky.

CLS55? Why yes, yes it is. Saw one for $8k...

On price, size, and looks, I'm leaning toward the E38 or the XJ308.

E38 Pros:
- dashingly handsome
- cheap for what you get (saw one with a bad trans for $2000, and I do have a spare T56 laying around the shop)

E38 Cons:
- a little common; doesn't have the "he looks richer than he actually is" appeal
- trouble with radiators and cats? Or was that just the V12?

XJ308 Pros:
- super sexy and timeless design
- a little less common
- British swagger

XJ308 Cons:
- Help me out.... drawing a blank here.

Are there more cheap luxo sedans I'm missing?

chandlerGTi wrote: Don't forget the 03/04 M45, styling is a matter of taste but they are very swanky.

I like the styling, and truth be told I don't think I've ever seen one. I'll have to do some digging.

curtis73 wrote: XJ308 Cons: - Help me out.... drawing a blank here.

Seems you found your answer.

Flight Service wrote:

curtis73 wrote: XJ308 Cons: - Help me out.... drawing a blank here.

Seems you found your answer.

Well, that was more of an "I don't know" than "there is nothing wrong with them." I was hoping someone would chime in with, "yeah the headlight fluid costs $6000 a quart and they always leak."

They might suck on reliability and I just don't know it yet. These days I don't have much time for a project, so repairs either go to a shop (cringe) or get shelved until a much later date.

The googles came up with this:

The Googles said: Nickasil bore liner sulphur erosion problem with pre-2000 V8s. Reports of tensioner problems leading to timing chain failures. Front wishbone bushes can go after 20,000 miles, causing steering problems, uneven tyre wear and ultimately suspension damage; £700 to replace (Jag's extended warranty doesn't cover this, unlike Warranty Direct's). Fifth highest repair costs in 2003 Warranty Direct reliability index (www.reliabilityindex.co.uk).

I'm not surprised $5k can buy those cars. That being said, you better have some wrenching skills and a bunch of spare cash laying around to get all of those $5k examples up to DD usage.

Cheap, older european cars aren't cheap to own.

OP, none of the cars suggested will have a $30 evap valve that can be replaced in ten minutes, most will more like the other part of your sentence there...

docwyte wrote: I'm not surprised $5k can buy those cars. That being said, you better have some wrenching skills and a bunch of spare cash laying around to get all of those $5k examples up to DD usage. Cheap, older european cars aren't cheap to own. OP, none of the cars suggested will have a $30 evap valve that can be replaced in ten minutes, most will more like the other part of your sentence there...

True, but we're not really talking about older. Its not like a 1986 Rover we're talking about, I'm looking at early and mid-2000s. Still the same deal? I'm asking because I genuinely don't know real-world answers to that question.

What about a Hemi-powered Chrysler 300? The first generation ones might be in that price range now.

Yes, same deal. Let me ask you a question, why do you think a car that cost upwards of $70k costs $5k now?

Answer, they're REALLY expensive to maintain! I don't want to rain on your parade, but buying a $5k older, european car when your annual income is $32k is a good pathway to financial ruin. Especially if its your sole means of transportation, so you have to get it running NOW.

Would you be happy with having to spend $1000 semi regularly to keep it running? Pretty much every time the hood goes up at a shop on one of those that'll be the minimum you'll spend.

I love european cars, they're pretty much all I've owned and I tend to shop in the shallow end of the pond so to speak, so I typically buy the cars you're thinking about, ten years old, 100-125k miles. I'm very familiar with them, do most of my own work and buy my parts online.

Even with that, I tend to spend several thousand dollars in maintenance every year on them. I just spent $1200 on front brakes for my Cayenne for instance and that's me doing all the labor myself, that was all parts cost. Those brakes are special, I admit, since my Cayenne is a Turbo S, but even a "regular" Cayenne Turbo front brake job is closer to $500 in parts.

There's no getting around the fact that while these cars are cheap to purchase now, they're still very expensive cars new and the cost to maintain them follows their initial purchase cost, not the current depreciated amount...

In reply to docwyte:

After selling cars at carmax for years, I will tell you why luxury cars depreciate like a rock.

Luxury car service prices. We have a guy on here rebuilding an R-class because Mercedes won't admit they screwed the pooch on a head bolt spec and wanted to charge him $50k for an engine.

That scares people. People aren't us. They don't work on them, they can't fix them, no matter how simple. DISA flap in a BMW? For us that is an afternoon of fun. The average-who-sets-market-prices consumer that is a hefty repair bill.

Fear and perception is what sets the price.

What are you replacing on that Porsche???? I just Rock Autoed a 2012 Turbo S and the front came out, pads and sensors, for $160 in parts. And that was the most expensive listed!

I am not questioning your competence. I know you know what you are doing. But what parts are you using? I don't think they are a fair comparison to what most of us would use.

You are right, if you don't know cars and you need a reliable piece of transportation, these aren't the cars for you.

(now ssshhhhhh don't tell anyone. You will make the prices go up for us! First of GRM is don't let anyone write about what you found as GRM because the prices will go up)

curtis73 wrote:

Flight Service wrote:

curtis73 wrote: XJ308 Cons: - Help me out.... drawing a blank here.

Seems you found your answer.

Well, that was more of an "I don't know" than "there is nothing wrong with them." I was hoping someone would chime in with, "yeah the headlight fluid costs $6000 a quart and they always leak." They might suck on reliability and I just don't know it yet. These days I don't have much time for a project, so repairs either go to a shop (cringe) or get shelved until a much later date.

Everything I have read about the Ford Jags is they are great. The only cautionary tale I have seen is the earlier one had issues with the Nikisil pealing on the cylinder liners but I believe a recal was done. If it is running and not making noises this far down the road you should be good.

Jag-Lovers.org buyers guide

Flight Service,

Look up the cost of front rotors on the 2006 Cayenne Turbo S. I got mine on sale (!!) for $565 each. Normally they're $750 each. These aren't even the ceramic rotors, those are more like $4500 each.

Yeah, most of us on this board are more than capable to handling the general problems an old european car kicks up. However the problems they have generally can't be fixed for $30 and in ten minutes time like the OP's example on his Impala SS.

As a sole means of transportation for someone that doesn't have lots of spare time and cash, they're not a good idea.

docwyte wrote: Yes, same deal. Let me ask you a question, why do you think a car that cost upwards of $70k costs $5k now? Answer, they're REALLY expensive to maintain!

While that can be the case, I disagree as a blanket statement. People THINK they're really expensive to maintain.

They depreciate like a rock because of the perception and the name. My W210 was dirt cheap used - not because it was a money pit, but because it was a luxury marque and (for the majority of people who think they have to go to the dealer for service) the perception is that its expensive to own. In reality, most of them are tanks that are dead-nuts reliable well past 200k miles.

Same went for my BMW. I used to laugh about folks with Bimmer 540s with the 4L30E transmission from the GM parts bin. It took the same fluid and filter as a GM, but they get soaked for up to 3 times as much just because its a BMW and they assumed it was the price they had to pay. Someone tried to pull that crap on my with my E30. The Getrag 260 was due for a fluid change. Flat rate price was $60 for manual transmissions, but mine was going to be $175 because Bimmer... which is complete BS. It took parts-store fluid, and there was a drain plug in the same place as any other vehicle. It wouldn't cost them a penny more, but they wanted to triple the price because Bimmer. I used it as an opportunity to buy a new floor jack.

We here know better, which is why I asked. There are gems out there; like a W210, an Infinity, Lexus, or an M5 that are good buys because they take the normal luxury depreciation hit without really being a money pit.

So I was looking for specific things to help me determine if the cars in this list fit the "gem" list or the "junk" list. If you have specific examples about the Jag, I'd love to hear them.

docwyte wrote: However the problems they have generally can't be fixed for $30 and in ten minutes time like the OP's example on his Impala SS.

Nor do I expect a luxury car to be $30 and ten minutes to fix everything. $50 and a half hour like my BMWs and Mercs were, fine. $500 and three days and specialty tools to fix? Not cool.

Again, which is why I asked.

Flight Service wrote: Everything I have read about the Ford Jags is they are great. The only cautionary tale I have seen is the earlier one had issues with the Nikisil pealing on the cylinder liners but I believe a recal was done. If it is running and not making noises this far down the road you should be good. Jag-Lovers.org buyers guide

Thanks for the link

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Not saying that they can't be made reliable and some will be more reliable than others but they will require regular infusions of time and cash. More cash than your Impala or a Honda/Toyota.

The Jaguar isn't as big inside as its footprint suggests. Make sure you fit comfortably in it. My hair brushes against the ceiling in my XJR.

Timing chain guides have an update. General opinion is that if you have a Nikaskil block and it's still running that it will continue to run. Mine is an early car and my engine is in great shape.

There aren't a lot of modification options if you're into that kind of thing. Exhaust, suspension, and power mods are limited to a handful of companies and are expensive.

My rear seat air vent keeps popping loose. My master cylinder leaks. Umm... oh and my headliner sags. That's fairly common. I can't really come up with many more negatives. I completely adore mine.

Docwyte said: Guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Not saying that they can't be made reliable and some will be more reliable than others but they will require regular infusions of time and cash. More cash than your Impala or a Honda/Toyota.

I'm not sure we disagree. You were providing very accurate information about general Euro luxury vehicles and I'm just looking for more specifics about the ones in this thread.

Some are great and some are crap. Just trying to narrow things down on a more specific basis.

I was between the X350 Jag and the Lexus LS430 when I was looking. From what I found at the time, the only real issue with the Jag was the air ride compressor. There was a ton of complaining about it on the forum, but at the time it was under $400 to replace. The other issue was that my wife thought it was too flashy.

We ended up with the LS and couldn't be happier. Its also nice that my neighborhood indy can work on it (although he hasn't). It is big and boring and quiet.

Since we're talking about the big Japanese luxury cars: Infiniti Q45.

When I'm in the EXACT same mindset as Curtis (like 99% of my adult life) I go to a couple of the on-line and even brick and mortar parts retailers and compare prices of parts that get replaced fairly commonly for the very cars you're looking for.

I use the same year Crown Vic to use as a baseline and so many of the parts such as brakes, front end parts, cooling system parts, window regulators, you name it, are so close in price to each other that I am never dissuaded by it.

Doing your own work as you do, I can't see generally speaking why this isn't a sane, maybe even good, idea.

The one exception I can't seem to get past in the Discovery. I'm not worried about many of the smaller parts, it's the engine failures that scare me off. And it would seem that the cars you're looking at don't suffer the same types of failure.

Just some window shopping on the XJ side:

1998, so Nikasil, but 46k miles for under $5k

Here is an older I6 model Vanden Plas that might be worth a look at under $3k

An 04 with 78k, loaded, listed at $9500 but could maybe get for $8K ... I wish it were an 01 with 100k so I could get it for $6k, cause that one looks really sexy in black with the ivory leather.

I own a 2001 W210 and in almost 10 years of ownership, I've done a crank position sensor, brakes, tires, and finally i think I'm needing a battery. I do all my own work, and we'll keep it forever. I could probably just throw away the title, as its that good. The car has 182k miles, and what's cool is you can earn high mileage awards for them if you send off to MBUSA for one. They send you a cool grille badge, a certificate in a book and a nice letter. We will buy a Mercedes sedan again, although I'm a bit more concerned with the W211+ with suspension issues. It's a good sign when in other parts of the world the W210 is a taxicab. Its the crown vic of Morocco.

Once you own a car like this, even if its made by BMW, AUDI, LEXUS etc. you cannot go back. Those Jaaaags are cool though.