DD / autox car Celia gt or 318ti

I'm in the market for a new to me DD. It will replace my rusty pos p5. The current fleet includes the wife's 08 v6 rav4, a 98 f250 for towing etc, the sawzall miata for autox, and my 97 miata for driving on nice days.

The new DD will likely see mostly highway driving for 50miles each way commute. I would also like something that can be prepped for stock class autox and have a reasonable chance of doing well. It would be the car I take to scca nationals and possibly a few tours. To be honest I'm not that great of a driver so te scca events are really more of a drinking competition at this point.

Two choices I've considered are the 2000-04 celica gt. one won gs this year at nats. They are easy to find, likely very reliable, and probably kind of boring to drive when not on the autox course.

The other option I've considered is the 95 BMW 318ti club sport. They are really hard to find, probably not as fast in gs autox, but I think they are really cool and I've wanted a ti for a long time. I've never driven one, but imagine the rwd would make it more fun than the celica. I would imagine it is not as reliable as the Toyota, but still not bad. It also uses premium fuel which kind of sucks.

Both would be cheap on tires I'm pretty sure and have the ability to haul their tires in the hatch which is a plus if you're driving 16 hours to Lincoln. I'm open to other options that meet the same criteria. 8k is about my max price point. I also don't want a mini since I hate working on them and they seem fairly unreliable.

Advice? Something completely different? I need 4 seats.

e30 318is with M42

or the new BRZ :)

Both have four seats

Both get 30mpg+ on the highway.

I'd love a brz, if I could find one for 8k I wouldn't be posting this.

Did the e30 318is come with a LSD? That's the main reason I'm looking for a club sport ti

pretty sure it did. Hell, even my 1985 318i has an original 3.91 LSD.

even if you find one that doesn't, though, e30 LSD diffs in various ratios are easy to find, inexpensive, and can be changed in about 15 minutes.........

you do not need the 95.. some 96s had the LSD too. You need to find an early one with the winter package. Mine is one of those cars.

As far as reliability is concerned.. the only failures I have had in 5 years and 60,000 miles was a fuel pump and the replacement waterpump I put in the car at 90,000. The car did need every bushing and all four shocks/struts replaced when I got it. The LCA bushings were so bad they fell apart in my hands.. but other than that.. gas, oil, and go

IIRC the LSD was an option on the E30 318is, at least over in Europe.

In reply to mw:

LSD was optional on the e30 318is. Even if you find a car without one, they're common and will only take an hour or two of labor to swap one out.

The Celica isn't that bad to drive when not autoxing... Probably not a HUGE amount more boring than a stock prepped 318Ti. You WILL look like a pansy driving one, though.

Honestly, the worst part about the GT is that the GT-S exists.

I never considered the Ti to be a boring drive. Certainly, with 140hp, it is not FAST, but it is lively and quicker than you might expect due to it's aggressive gearing (you don;t hit 60mph in 2nd) .

It does, however, not tolerate poor driving at the limit. Like the previous generation, it's trailing arm suspension will put you into a hedge backwards if you attempt to lift mid corner (or in my case, across somebody's front yard)

But, like the E30 and the originam M3.. it is a lively little beast that drives, goes, and stops a lot better than the numbers suggest. As the lightest of the E36s, it's weight is it's biggest advantage.

Being able to swallow a phenominal amount of stuff in the hatch is it's other party trick

I have thought of the last gen of Celica to be a perfect commuter. True, I would be drawn more to the GTS version's engine but even in GT form you get Corolla like reliability and economy with a useful hatch and a sport body.

I d not know what the hot autox set up is for a Celica GT but hearing that it more than holds its own is good news as well.

I vote GT even though my daily driver is an e30.

I"ve owned and autocrossed a 318ti. If you are staying with stock class, go with the Celica.

I loved my ti, but the Celica is the better car for your intended purpose. Faster for the class and much easier on tires.

wow.. never thought I would hear somebody say something FWD was better on tyres.. especially in AutoX

Well, it IS lighter, i believe, if that counts for anything?

I would probably buy the Celica GT as a DD. More reliable close to if not as fun. That generation Celicas are good cars despite either looking a bit chickish in GT form or ricey in GT-S form. I would find a set of GT-S seats to add though.

93EXCivic wrote: I would probably buy the Celica GT as a DD. More reliable close to if not as fun. That generation Celicas are good cars despite either looking a bit chickish in GT form or ricey in GT-S form. I would find a set of GT-S seats to add though.

They look the same in GT or GT-S. Difference exterior wise is wheels.

The "rice package" was on more GT than GT-S.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Well, it IS lighter, i believe, if that counts for anything?

I looked it up... the GTS is about 200 pounds lighter.. I am impressed. "lessor" models more so

mad_machine wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: Well, it IS lighter, i believe, if that counts for anything?

I looked it up... the GTS is about 200 pounds lighter.. I am impressed. "lessor" models more so

I consider the GTS to be the last truly light and nimble FWD car with enough power to be called a "Hot Hatch." They're excellent cars.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: I would probably buy the Celica GT as a DD. More reliable close to if not as fun. That generation Celicas are good cars despite either looking a bit chickish in GT form or ricey in GT-S form. I would find a set of GT-S seats to add though.

They look the same in GT or GT-S. Difference exterior wise is wheels. The "rice package" was on more GT than GT-S.

Really every GT-S I have ever seen had that package.

93EXCivic wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:

93EXCivic wrote: I would probably buy the Celica GT as a DD. More reliable close to if not as fun. That generation Celicas are good cars despite either looking a bit chickish in GT form or ricey in GT-S form. I would find a set of GT-S seats to add though.

They look the same in GT or GT-S. Difference exterior wise is wheels. The "rice package" was on more GT than GT-S.

Really every GT-S I have ever seen had that package.

Heh it's called the "Action Package" and it was an option for all trim levels.

My guess is that you assumed the ones without the package were GT trim.

I'm also going Celica on this. I raced a GT SSC in a few events and it was a great, great car. Around town the GT is better than the GTS, and it does not have the same oiling issues either. In fact, chassis wise it is better than my Cooper S. It's difficult to get the S to do anything but understeer, but the Celica could be driven like a RWD and easily controlled by the throttle. It's an absolute joy on track and is always your partner. It never tries to kill you if it thinks you've done something stupid.

I've also owned an E36 BMW, and hands down I would choose the Celica. The 318Ti is not a bad car at all, it's just the Celica is so much more.

racerdave600 wrote: Around town the GT is better than the GTS

Due to gearing? Or the perceived lack of power "out of lift" the GTS has?

The motor in the GTS is its own worst enemy... it feels so gutless around town because it feels so ridiculous up top.

However...

1zzfe dyno:

2zzge dyno:

2zzge never makes less power than 1zzfe, just has that nice bonus up top where the 1zzfe is ready for bed.