DD Sedan\super sedan to drive into the ground - Mercury Marauder w/ an Eaton or X350 Jaguar XJR or?

1. It seats 2 adults and 3 children.
2. It has something that will allow this vehicle to survive the test of time.
3. It is cool\neat\niche
4. It is not overshadowed by another better model
5. It is not bland

The vehicle I should be buying here is a CTS-V.  I do not expect a CTS-V body to be able to last 300K+ miles.  CTS-V1s already look horrendously dated and CTS-V2s I think will look equally as dated soon.  I think the GTO has aged well, but am unsure whether I can swap CTS-V rear seats in.    Even still, again, I don't want a car rotting from the inside out with subframes in 100-200k miles.

This lead me to two trains of thought.

1. Mercury Marauder w/ an eaton, 31 spline axles and a refreshed 03 cobra rotating assembly, 480rwhp is about on par with a 550hp rating for a shiftkit 4R75W  Redneck E55
2. Aluminum unibody car which lead me to the x350 XJR (and it's varients) British E55

From what I can tell, these XJs are a sort of hidden jem and are actually reliable.  Absolutely no aftermarket to speak of, but cheap transmissions that are reliable and cheapish rebuilds of the shortblock if necessary.  I was surprised to learn what I associated Jaguar with (the Type-S), was the garbage that I thought was "all of Jaguar."  Lot's of stories of happy customers.  And of course, aluminum unibody, so I can "drive it into the ground."

The Marauder I would expect to have to repaint, but being "body on frame" no big deal.  Plenty of panther platform cars with 600K+ on them.  Enormous parts availability etc.

But what bothers me about the Marauder is a complete lack of luxury ala Mercedes etc.  It's got a total 90s Cadillac Seville level of luxury thing going on.  And the XJR seems to be sort of the whole package, ready to go.  The only reason I keep going back to it is because I know it'll sound great, be A LOT faster and I can swap in a front bench.  Is it inappropriate to choose your vehicles based on how easy it is to get your shaft polished?

My heart wants to find an XJR, but I know this is somehow the wrong choice.

I really wish I could find something with a manual transmission that isn't a pile of junk!  

I just really bothers me that I have to get rid of my Yukon because it's starting to rust, so the aluminum body car has a lot of appeal to me.  I really wish Audi had made aluminum S4s, could you imagine!

This all sort of started when I decided I was going to finally get an E46 M3 and realized I have to make sure that whatever car I was looking at didn't have a rotted subframe connection and then it put into perspective the limited time I can love a car.  I know some people "fix" theirs, but man, I don't know that I could ever trust that after repair.

And if you think this post is insane enough, the car I want to build, but I don't have enough information for is a 3SGE swapped IS300, but not enough people have done it LHD for me to know if it's doable with just a steering offset.  We live in a harbor with 15\25mph roads mostly, so it's mostly cruising and "drivers cars" that work out here.  There's a guy with an E30 M3 around here, and I never understood that car until living here.  And now it's too late!

So my two ideal cars to own out here would be something like an E30 M3 and a E55 AMG, but I ain't about to spend $60K on cars and $10K a year on upkeep.

Set me straight!

In reply to Nickerz :

If you’re considering the Marauder, you might want to also include the Crown Vic Sport. 

The Panther platform should be cheaper to own long-term, will be easier to find parts for(especially locally on short notice), and will be a bit more stealthy. That said, having recently owned a P71 I didn’t find it to be particularly exciting. 

You want to put 300k on a fast sedan, the Lexus GS430 is your choice. I sold mine in very good shape to another forum member at 275k miles or so and it's still going strong. You'll do repairs to get it there (eg  door locks actuators and suspension bushings at around 200-250k) but trans and engine internals and body are all solid. 0-60 in the high 5 second range. Handles great with a set of good tires. Even looks good with the right wheels. 

That was mine at 260k miles or so. 

In reply to dculberson :

Came here to say this. Plus, for cruising, the long wheelbase, Cush suspension, and Lexus amenities (sound deadening) will fade those harbor roads out. The v8 will provide all the torques for low speed stop light take off. 

I went through a similar choice a while ago and settled on the XJR.

Make no mistake though... the Mercedes trans inside of it is far from cheap.  It is pretty reliable, but it is a typical Benz... complex, hard to rebuild, and expensive to buy used.

Yeah, I'd be all over a GS430 for this application. Probably not quite as fun, and definitely not as unique as an XJR or Marauder, though.

But to be honest, I haven't driven an XJR or a Marauder, so I can't say based on actual experience.

If you're willing to deal with an XJR and want a MT, why not consider an E39 M5? I have a hard time believing the Jag is MORE reliable.

The XJR rear seat is way smaller than expected for a vehicle that size. 

What's your budget? I hear ISF's are getting cheap, if you like small rear seat sedans that make glorious noises. 

The Marauder lack of luxury, swap in Grand Marquise interior? 

Otherwise, is there any reason a 2003+ e55 isn't an option? Or e39 m5 or e39 540i w/6spd manual? 

I have a soft spot for the Marauder, so it has my vote.

dculberson said:

GS3\400

That was mine at 260k miles or so. 
 

First, to be honest, a 2JZ GS300 was and still is a serious consideration.  A roots GS400 was as well.   

1. These cars from what I understand do not ride like a XJ, Panther, LS400 etc.  They are more in the "sport" category, without any of the advantages of being a "sports" oriented car, being too heavy and underpowered.
2. I think I would have trouble putting serious body\paint work and time into this once it comes time, being a unibody car and all.  Which is sort of why I'm divided between aluminum unibody on the XJ and body on frame with the Marauder.

Make no mistake though... the Mercedes trans inside of it is far from cheap.  It is pretty reliable, but it is a typical Benz... complex, hard to rebuild, and expensive

ZF 6HP seems very common, though most seemed pulled from BMWs.  It would appear there's a large number of these available on eBay for around $1000-1200 which is only nominally more expensive than the 4R70W.  Couple rebuilt for $16\1700.

If you're willing to deal with an XJR and want a MT, why not consider an E39 M5? I have a hard time believing the Jag is MORE reliable.

Nothing on the car is cheap to maintain or ubiquitous, it's unibody, people want huge money for nice examples, has less power than the cars I'm proposing (not that it makes a huge difference).  In this case I'd go with a CTS-V1 even if I love it a lot less.  And in that category of car, I would get the E46 M3.  Lacks the second set of doors, but that's the kid's problem, not mine.  It is not entirely unlikely I'll get an E46, it's just going to take a while to digest and certainly won't be a DD.  Much sexier car, no doubt.  Just more in the "car I want to own" but not drive daily category.

What's your budget? I hear ISF's are getting cheap, if you like small rear seat sedans that make glorious noises. 

The Marauder lack of luxury, swap in Grand Marquise interior? 

Otherwise, is there any reason a 2003+ e55 isn't an option? Or e39 m5 or e39 540i w/6spd manual? 

IS-F is a consideration for sure.  People are hoarding them for good reason.  I have to check it out, to make sure it rides as nice.  I suspect modern suspension will be about toe to toe with some of these luxo boats. One of my personal tastes that I didn't want to mention, but sound is a big one.  Ford modular v8 with a flowmaster and a blower, or AJV8 with a blower are both great notes.  The AJV8 sounds very similar.  2JZ sounds great, S55 sounds great...   E55 is way way too expensive to maintain, doesn't really do anything for me except on paper, I don't like the way it sounds either.  Addressed the M5 above and the 540i fails my "overshadowed" rule.  I don't mind if the "best" model is unobtanium, e.g. the GNX vs GN\E30 M3 vs M3 Evo or if they're actually different in their own right e.g. Z06 vs ZR1, but the "almost an M5 540i" I'd have to own the real deal, me personally.  Honestly I wish I wasn't so anal, I really do.  That I could enjoy a fleet of "almost" vehicles and have the same joy of ownership.

If audis weren't so terrible I would also be considering the S8.

I should mention the X358 XJ, to me, seems to have classic appeal.  That's another thing that gives it a point for me.  The marauder has that going to a certain degree, it's nice.  But IDK, the XJR just does seem to have the sex appeal.

So....what's your budget? It seems like your kind of all over the place. The X350 XJR maintenance doesn't seem as cheap as the x308 cars probably because the suspension. There's a reason their buy in is pretty low. 

You don't want top-tier running cost, but can't settle for next best thing that fills your requirements without the "high" maintenance cost because it's not as good as the top-tier option. But yet, you are willing to throw on a blower plus a lot of other mods for a Marauder that doesn't check your whole list because it isn't luxury enough? 

You don't want top-tier running cost, but can't settle for next best thing that fills your requirements without the "high" maintenance cost because it's not as good as the top-tier option. But yet, you are willing to throw on a blower plus a lot of other mods for a Marauder that doesn't check your whole list because it isn't luxury enough? 

This is a tough thread to frame because it's fundamentally about value and total cost of ownership.  I can sell an eaton, 8.8 rear, 4R70W, longblock etc out of a marauder when it has 3\4\5\600K, the body is mostly superfluous. So really, as far as I'm concerned, the Marauder right now is perfectly at the bottom of the depreciation curve.  It's damn near a free body.  

So....what's your budget? It seems like your kind of all over the place. The X350 XJR maintenance doesn't seem as cheap as the x308 cars probably because the suspension. There's a reason their buy in is pretty low. 

I'm okay going over to Arnott if the time comes.  I don't mind replacements that are upgrades that can be resold down the line, no big deal at all.  What does chap my ass is putting huge money into repairs that you'll never get back, e.g. a wiper control relays, weirdo hoses that you can't buy off the shelf and all sorts of Mercedes\BMW esc problem on an E55 etc.  Stuff associated with weird, one off ish, cars that don't have a lot of parts bin or volume (E39 M5).  These are cars that I am okay with owning, like the E46 M3, but I am not okay with having as a daily driver, because the running costs are too high.

If I buy an E39 M5 for $25K, when it has a bajillian miles on it, it's going to be worth $5K.  That's $20K in depreciation alone.  If I buy it with high miles, it's going to need constant TLC\repairs that I won't recoup and have no real value.

Again, I was surprised to learn about the X350\8, it does seem to be reliable.  And aluminum body means I only have to worry about mechanics for the most part.  

Also considered a CTS-V2 at one point, $35K.  But frankly, the depreciation to me, wasn't worth it.  That's why I'm saying it's hard to say "budget."  I'm looking at a $5K marauder right now, $20K ISFs, etc.  It's all about value, lowest cost of ownership and maximizing smiles per dollar.  But I'm talking about it on here to make sure I'm not missing anything, to reconsider the GS etc.  All and all it doesn't look like I'm "off the mark" at all.

When I'm talking about "driving a car into the ground" I have to consider things like how long before it starts to rot?  Will I still want to keep the vehicle when it comes time to repaint it?  

Maybe I'm wrong and this is insane.  Hit me with another alternative of something you think would be cost effective, factoring in depreciation and ownership costs?  The IS-F is a good example, but I can't think of many more like that.  Now you got me thinking about high mileage CTS-V2s...

You sound like a ford fan. Just buy the ford. 
 

lol@gs430 being under powered. 

In reply to _ :

Well to be fair compared to 400hp stock the XJ, 550hp on a blower swap 300hp is pretty slow.  I don't really like the newer GS at all, but am considered the IS-F and that gets it done.  That might be the "wife's" car honestly.

While I think you should get the Jag, I want to mention that the fact it's made of aluminum doesn't mean it will be more corrosion resistant than a regular unibody steel car. The difference is how they corrode. With aluminum body panels, you will see the same paint bubbling as a steel car but the difference is that under those bubbles, the aluminum turns into a white powder.

I've had a few aluminum paneled cars here in the rust belt and they all had that corrosion problem. My 2005 Freestyle had a rear hatch made of aluminum and needed to be repainted in 2009. My 2001 Suburban also has a rear aluminum hatch that will need to be repainted for the second time now after about 8 years.

And they are harder to repaint because most paint system do not seem to stick very well to aluminum. 

And I totally get that you want value and I think the Jag is a better long-term value.

fanfoy said:

While I think you should get the Jag, I want to mention that the fact it's made of aluminum doesn't mean it will be more corrosion resistant than a regular unibody steel car. The difference is how they corrode. With aluminum body panels, you will see the same paint bubbling as a steel car but the difference is that under those bubbles, the aluminum turns into a white powder.

I've had a few aluminum paneled cars here in the rust belt and they all had that corrosion problem. My 2005 Freestyle had a rear hatch made of aluminum and needed to be repainted in 2009. My 2001 Suburban also has a rear aluminum hatch that will need to be repainted for the second time now after about 8 years.

And they are harder to repaint because most paint system do not seem to stick very well to aluminum. 

And I totally get that you want value and I think the Jag is a better long-term value.

As long as the structure of the body remains in tact, that's fine and to be expected.  With the Marauder, if it starts the rust, it's okay because it's a panther.  Find a lowish mile panther and start cutting and welding body off of frame.  Whatever.  No problem at all.  Good to go for another 10 years.  But some of these cars like a M5 etc, when they start to rust and need little things here and there, it's pretty much game over.  I think the XJ is the right choice too.  It's going to take a while to find and I'm worried that a lot of people that have them aren't going to want to let go of them for the right price.

So I may sit and wait in the marauder ;p 

Looks like they did a small run of twin screw kits for the XJ too.  But that sounds like a REALLY bad idea ;p 

In reply to Nickerz :

That x350 XJR will have those same e39 m5 issues and not maintain their value at the same time. While the m5 will retain its value better. I understand not wanting to dd such a car. But, I find it interesting that you think the x350 will serve you any better. Besides looks (debatable) and initial buy-in cost, the e39 m5 is a better car all around. And you can find clean ones with moderate miles in the low to mid teens. 

I think the ISF or a 5.0 Genesis will keep you happy. 

Isn't poopshoval selling his v2 CTS-V for like 20k?

I won't recommend any more awesome Mercedes to you. Especially biturbo v8 one's

yupididit said:

So....what's your budget? It seems like your kind of all over the place. The X350 XJR maintenance doesn't seem as cheap as the x308 cars probably because the suspension. There's a reason their buy in is pretty low. 

When i was looking at X350s in 2006 the insurance costs were a lot higher than X308s too, about $2000/yr for a 2003 vs $1200/yr for my 2001 XJR (for comparison, my 99 Cougar also cost about $1200/yr).  It was one of the few all aluminum bodied cars at the time though, maybe thats not as much of a potential repair issue anymore with hundreds of thousands of aluminum F150s around so maybe insurance costs have come down.

Nickerz said:

In reply to _ :

Well to be fair compared to 400hp stock the XJ, 550hp on a blower swap 300hp is pretty slow.  I don't really like the newer GS at all, but am considered the IS-F and that gets it done.  That might be the "wife's" car honestly.

Those "550hp" twinscrew upgraded XJR's don't last long at all and hardly make their power in a sustainable way (heatsoak kills them too). Hardly something you can dd. You can buy more modern Jags with the 510hp 5.0 that will be more reliable at those power levels all while being stock. But they'll cost ya lol. 

Honestly slightly modded and stock XJR's are better for you. When people start pushing their mods on them the engine pushes you back into your wallet lol. 

A W210 Mercedes E55 would be a decent option.  They are a lot simpler than the later blower E55 cars and have a bulletproof 5.4 M113 drivetrain.  Nice examples are actually appreciating.

My context here is I have done major repairs and a fair amount of driving of an X308 XJR, owned a GS450h (not a v8... but faster, and as fast as an XJR if you've been in both), driven 1st and 2nd gen CTS-Vs (both manuals), driven every Panther besides the Marauder. Oh and driven IS300 too although that whole line item just seems to muddy the waters. Also driven an E39 540i/6 although not an M5. 

Having driven all of those I find some of your statements a little confusing. But i THINK in the end you'd actually be happiest with a modified Marauder if you can stand to invest the time and energy in the mods up front. Basic durability, repairability, and ride quality. 

Another fan of the E55 and 5.0 Genesis suggestions here. And I'll add the Infiniti M56

May I present to you...the 2011-2019 Infiniti M56S/Q70 5.6 S.

Just as quick as the Jag, more spacious than the Marauder and IIRC both subfames are aluminum - a boon in any rust belt area. Toys? Yes, it's certainly got them. Heated and cooled seats, push-to-start, solid magnesium paddle shifters, navigation, Bose audio, the works.

But wait. Is 0-60 in 4.9 seconds a bit plebeian? Do you like to get your hands dirty? Then the M37S with its VQ37VHR V6 may be a better choice simply due to the bewildering aftermarket support for that engine. Forced induction? Would you like one turbo, two turbos, a centrifugal supercharger, a roots blower or a twin-screw blower? Manual swap? A 370Z 6-speed shares a bellhousing pattern and supports however much power you want, plus the swap can be done without going to a standalone. Want shorter gears? IIRC, both the M37 and the G37/370Z have the same R200 differential so options should be out there.

Regardless of V6 or V8, it's a unique, more reliable alternative to a 5-series and the last big ICE sedan from Infiniti. You could even get the renamed Q70 version in long-wheelbase form, should you wish to trade some speed for not having the seatbacks kicked.

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT

The CTS-V has not aged well, but you think the GTO has?

G_Body_Man said:

May I present to you...the 2011-2019 Infiniti M56S/Q70 5.6 S.

Just as quick as the Jag, more spacious than the Marauder and IIRC both subfames are aluminum - a boon in any rust belt area. Toys? Yes, it's certainly got them. Heated and cooled seats, push-to-start, solid magnesium paddle shifters, navigation, Bose audio, the works.

But wait. Is 0-60 in 4.9 seconds a bit plebeian? Do you like to get your hands dirty? Then the M37S with its VQ37VHR V6 may be a better choice simply due to the bewildering aftermarket support for that engine. Forced induction? Would you like one turbo, two turbos, a centrifugal supercharger, a roots blower or a twin-screw blower? Manual swap? A 370Z 6-speed shares a bellhousing pattern and supports however much power you want, plus the swap can be done without going to a standalone. Want shorter gears? IIRC, both the M37 and the G37/370Z have the same R200 differential so options should be out there.

Regardless of V6 or V8, it's a unique, more reliable alternative to a 5-series and the last big ICE sedan from Infiniti. You could even get the renamed Q70 version in long-wheelbase form, should you wish to trade some speed for not having the seatbacks kicked.

See this is why I'm here.

Great, great post.  Thank you, will consider this as an alternative to the aging GS 2JZ idea.  berkeley yeah man.