DD Trackday Star

In reply to GameboyRMH:

S1 Elise wasn't federalized here, so he couldn't drive it on the street.

You could build a killer e36 M3 track car for well south of $20k. Lighter than the e46 M3, and can be made to be incredibly fast and agile.

Just for example, here is a car I just found on Bimmerforums. Obviously the half-cage would need to be modified/removed for DD duty, but it looks to be an incredible build (at a glance...don't know the car or owner) for $12.5k.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1904896&highlight=track

Oh man, you got my so excited about the S1 Elise! I thought maybe I missed something, I have seen only one far sale in the last 5 years in North America.

That 325i looks good, my friend has something similar, same rollbar actually. In fact we both drive a 4 door 2 seater, as both our current DDs have the rollbars haha. I will have to research this boxster business. I have the biggest porsche fetish I just stay away from them because I love them too much and can't afford the damn things...yet. In my area they seem to be on par with S2000's price wise, which is a bit high.

You're in a tough spot. You really need a dedicated track car, it's tough to DD what you're describing.

E36 M3's are great cars, very durable, large aftermarket and with a set of front Stoptech's, the brakes will be bomb proof.

Stock NB (sport pkg / hard-s) + carbotech XP8s + rollbar is what I have, and do exactly what you want to do. I'd also recommend a better radiator and ducting: mine is marginal on 85F+ days.

Stock motor is becoming a bit boring - but for your budget either a hot-rod n/a motor following one of the miata.net formulas, or a mild supercharger setup, would change that equation.

I put ~20k miles plus ~6 trackdays + a couple autocrosses a year. Just regular maintenance, rinse and repeat. I run the same wheels/tires/brakes all year long.

Is the MSM really so bad that it should be thrown out? I'm looking for a similar platform except not going to be an every day car but will be driven to the track (possibly +8hrs or more depending on location) mainly wanting a miata and mainly wanting to do NASA TT with it. MSM on paper would dominate...

I own one, and if was wanting a track car/daily driver, i wouldn't buy another one. Actually... i probably just wouldn't buy another one, period.

I wouldn't necessarily say it's BAD, it IS the fastest factory Miata ever available in North America in any situation... but it has some shortcomings that need to be addressed before i would personally consider putting on on the track.

Which is why i like the idea of an NB Sport.

Thats what I was thinking. Between weight, aftermarket, known reliability and consumables an NB sport will be the best bet. I can start that at about $10k for a really nice example and have it where I want it for about $20k in, if I buy all new, which I never have. Ive had two NA's just love the damn cars.

Shoot for 2200lb, and 150whp, should be fun, quick enough and can be put away wet .

From what I have seen from the MSM based on some racing friends and forums. The formula is as follows: buy MSM, upgrade a little, overheat, upgrade some more, learn to drive it quick, start having to re torque the manifold and/or turbo every event. Try to reinforce it, fail or spend a lot of $. Move to a non turbo NA/NB, never look back. My turbo miata actually put me off turbos for years, those are the guys you always see ending sessions early at trackdays.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I own one, and if was wanting a track car/daily driver, i wouldn't buy another one. Actually... i probably just wouldn't buy another one, period. I wouldn't necessarily say it's BAD, it IS the fastest factory Miata ever available in North America in any situation... but it has some shortcomings that need to be addressed before i would personally consider putting on on the track. Which is why i like the idea of an NB Sport.

Sorry to hijack but might help the OP:

I would be open to any modifications to exhaust (including turbo manifold), intake, inter cooler, oil pan, catch can, radiator and standalone. Just needs to stay stock turbo and longblock. Looking at the 200 wheel mark. Maybe then will it be a reliable setup? (Keep in mind my other track car is a 180k 2.0L WRX to compare too)

rwdsport wrote: Shoot for 2200lb, and 150whp, should be fun, quick enough and can be put away wet .

This is precisely the goal for my NA once I swap in a 1.8.

Already have the sport brakes and suspension rebuilt. But it's not my DD. I'd prefer a bit more creature comfort.

Have you considered an NC Miata?

I did what you are describing for 7yrs with an E36 M3, Ground Control race setup, JB racing flywheel, swaybars, Wilwoods up front with real race pads. Aluminum radiator, electric fan and oil pan baffles. It was a spectacular compromise car. Fast as hell and bulletproof thru 40K of track-only miles. As pictured, 2650lbs 250whp/240ft/lbs.

BTW, If you are really melting brakes on everything but Ferrari ceramics... you ae using them too much. Get off them. you can turn in going a hell of a lot faster than you think :)

FWIW, the original 986 Boxster is a 2.5L 201HP/180TQ and 2822Lbs. That's a 6.7 0-60 stone-stock. You can find these at $9995 all day in Portland/Seattle.

In 01 they went up to a 2.7 with 217HP and down to a 6.4 0-60.

The 986 S is a 3.2L with 249HP and a 6-speed manual that weighs 3130Lbs. 0-60 dropped to 5.9. You can find these for around $15K all day.

In 03 the regular went up to 225HP (6.2) and the S to 258HP (5.4).

Versus spending $10K upgrading a $10K Miata that will still be slow?

rwdsport wrote: I considered the e46 M3. Waaay too heavy and consumables cost is too much. Not to mention that car will be at the top of my price bracket before I have to modify anything, at least for one that is DD wothy. Add tracking (particularly how I drive) and I will need to replace bushings every two years if not more often.

The way you drive is wrong.......

I was just mentioning it would be better suited stock to all duties on average than the rest.....if you look you can find clean ones for around 16-17k.

I'll quit pushing it though......also, why has nobody mentioned the rx8 yet?

I think he said something about minimal wrenching.

GameboyRMH wrote: I think he said something about minimal wrenching.

Reverse psycology.....

I like GPS's idea......buy a reasonable M3 in E36 variety for cheap and modify it from there......consumables for that should be quite inexpensive. Plus a better car to live with everyday.

Javelin wrote: FWIW, the original 986 Boxster is a 2.5L 201HP/180TQ and 2822Lbs. That's a 6.7 0-60 stone-stock. You can find these at $9995 all day in Portland/Seattle. In 01 they went up to a 2.7 with 217HP and down to a 6.4 0-60. The 986 S is a 3.2L with 249HP and a 6-speed manual that weighs 3130Lbs. 0-60 dropped to 5.9. You can find these for around $15K all day. In 03 the regular went up to 225HP (6.2) and the S to 258HP (5.4). Versus spending $10K upgrading a $10K Miata that will still be slow?

Yep, thats right, I dont think we are on the same page. 0-60 means absolutely nothing to me, sensory adaptation as typical of most humans means I will get used to the power. If you notice, almost none of the money I would want to spend on the car is power related. I would rather have maximum feedback, consistency and safety on the track than outright power. More importantly, the car would be dialed in and comfortable for ME. That means I can focus on the driving, trying different lines and most importantly, when looking over my data I would know the variance in the time is much more likely to be from a change I made in the driving rather than the 10 different changing variables of a "compromised" sports car. Driving 9/10ths will be equally fun in both cars. Driving 10/10ths will be nearly impossible in a nearly stock production car that is so compromised for the general public. I will have more fun, learn more and spend less all day long.

On top of that the difference between 400$ tires and 700$ tires, 80$ pads and 180$ pads and associated consumables. Its an expensive hobby, why would I want to spend 10000$ a year instead of 5000$?

If you're spending $10,000 on consumables you're doing something wrong. I track my 951/LS1 conversion and I go through 1 set of brake pads a season and generally 1 set of Nitto NT01's/Toyo RA1's a season.

A season for me is generally 12-15 track days, 4 30 minute sessions a day.

E30? Miata "like" in character, stiff chassis, easy to mod. Pick up clean example, swap S/m50/52 (or v8 of your choice...) into car, upgrade brakes and suspension, seats... soup?

You've got enough money to make a 3rd gen Camaro into something really special. I suggest you pick out some sick IROC decals for the doors if it doesn't already have them.

Miata + S2K engine/transmission = 240hp bullet-proof screamer.

rwdsport wrote: I would rather have maximum feedback, consistency and safety on the track than outright power.

You say this and then don't want a Porsche?!? The Boxster's steering has been called telepathic and the handling scalpel-sharp, even bone stock. It's also larger and safer than a Miata for track safety.

Wow, I guess you just already know the car and needed validation, which is fine, but we aren't needed here, so I'm out. Good luck with your imminent Miata purchase.

TR8!

easy button.... Buy my C4 for $6k, spend $4k making it pretty and comfy for a DD and spend the other $10k on pads, tires and bearings for the next 3 years. Done.

Now THAT was easy.

930 911? Does Wallens have input on this?

I'd think the E36 M3 would be the one, as long as you make some braking upgrades, but then I've never driven an S2000.

Wait- you want telepathic and fast? Buy my 4age blacktop swapped MG Midget. I'll make you a deal

If you are having a heart-ache with the S2K, why not just go after the S52 Z3 M Coupe'. Consumables are similar the E36 M3, S52 engine is reliable, awesome brakes and a great after market. Check out mcoupebuyersguide.com for some options. That's where I found mine when I was looking. You may be able to find a deal.

Good Luck!