ShawnG said:And maybe tell him not to drive it on the beach anyway, even if it's 4wd.
I live near the beach and we used to go to our friends house for parties in the summer. Part of the entertainment was watching 4x4's be claimed by the sea.
The advantage of driving a 2WD Jeep on the beach is that it will be easier to recover because it won't have gone as far :)
Get good tires and a positraction rear end (or whatever Jeep calls it).
Shoot, we grew up in the midwest driving $300 Delta 88's with one wheel spinning away in the snow.
He'll make it work.
Loose beach sand is very unforgiving. Our Grand Vitara is great especially lower the tire pressures to @20psi.
Keith Tanner said:ShawnG said:And maybe tell him not to drive it on the beach anyway, even if it's 4wd.
I live near the beach and we used to go to our friends house for parties in the summer. Part of the entertainment was watching 4x4's be claimed by the sea.
The advantage of driving a 2WD Jeep on the beach is that it will be easier to recover because it won't have gone as far :)
Or the ocean can claim it and then replace it with the 4wd version.
I think its tail housing, tcase, front axle, and front driveshaft.
2WD on sand is not an issue, just ask this guy.
Seriously though, when we used to go wheeling on the beach in NC, there were plenty of 4WD SUVs stuck to the frame while 2WD cars with proper tires rolled right on by.
Add me to the list of folks who are shocked to find that Jeep offered a 2WD Wrangler in 2007. I see this in a completely different realm than an Explorer/Trailblazer/etc. Looks like it was only for 4 years, and only in the 4-doors, which makes more sense in my head.
Reminds me of my Dad buying an '08 BMW 535, loaded to the gills minus iDrive, from Carmax in 2010. He took it back 3 days later (perk of buying from Carmax) when he found out it didn't have heated seats. I don't think there has been any BMW 5 series sold in Illinois without heated seats in the last 20 years, the '95 5 series it replaced had no bells and whistles whatsoever except for heated seats. Turns out the '08 came from Florida. Not much use for them down there, I suspect.
MrChaos said:I think its tail housing, tcase, front axle, and front driveshaft.
Add sensors, wiring and ECM tuning.
Also, don't forget to add that I've never seen an ABS system that was the same between 2wd and 4wd. They are configured based on how it reacts when the T case is engaged versus disengaged. Dig deep into ABS before you start the swap. Could be as simple as a wheel sensor and a reflash, or it could be an entirely different system.
Might have to get some custom brake hoses since the 2wd and 4wd might have different hard lines that terminate in different places.
In reply to mtn :
We use heated seats as a joke. Turn them on when your buddy isn't looking and watch them squirm for a few minutes until they figure it out.
captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:How good is his insurance?
Is driving it through the front window of the dealership and then telling them now it is your problem, an option?
Why? What did the dealer do to deserve this?
Stampie said:In reply to mtn :
We use heated seats as a joke. Turn them on when your buddy isn't looking
My wife is going thru the change of life. I do this to her on hot summer days. I'm a bad person but usually it's funny.
No Time said:As far as the hard parts go, it's difficult to say without seeing what's under it for a front axle. IIRC on the Cherokee's they used a straight axle with the same suspension configuration as the 4wd, so I would expect the wrangler to be similar.
The best option might be to buy a 4wd with a rotted frame from up north and move over everything you need and part out the rest.My guess would be you'll need:
- axle
- driveshafts
- transfer case and adapter
- transmission
- switch gear / shifter
- crossmember and mounts (might be the same on 2wd and 4 wd)
- any missing harnesses
- reprogramming/replacement of control modules.
A Jeep with a rotted frame is worth more up north than the parts to convert a Jeep would cost.
Also, you'd have to rebuild a lot of it anyway. The U joints like to seize up from rust, the seals leak because the housings rust behind where the seal presses in, etc.
John Welsh said:You might be able to buy the weak stuff from guys beefing up to strong stuff.
Or just buy the strong stuff. I've had to fix blown-apart Dana 30s on stock tired Wranglers. If it's going to cost money, why spend it putting in crap?
MrChaos said:I think its tail housing, tcase, front axle, and front driveshaft.
And rear driveshaft, and the rest of the transmission, and some wiring work, and the center console, and the floor will have to be modded. Possibly instrument cluster. Definitely PCM reflash if automatic, possibly if manual.
The rear pinion might be a CV joint on 4wd and a U joint on 2wd, too, so that would also need to be addressed.
Steve_Jones said:captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:How good is his insurance?
Is driving it through the front window of the dealership and then telling them now it is your problem, an option?
Why? What did the dealer do to deserve this?
He sold someone a 2wd Wrangler. That's reason enough.
Steve_Jones said:captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:How good is his insurance?
Is driving it through the front window of the dealership and then telling them now it is your problem, an option?
Why? What did the dealer do to deserve this?
Teh interwebz says car dealers are Satan.
Appleseed said:Steve_Jones said:captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:How good is his insurance?
Is driving it through the front window of the dealership and then telling them now it is your problem, an option?
Why? What did the dealer do to deserve this?
He sold someone a 2wd Wrangler. That's reason enough.
No, that guy bought a 2wd Wrangler. I've never heard of anyone being forced to write a check for a car they don't want. Next time he won't be in such a hurry.
At some point, it's gotta be the fault of the guy that saw the truck, drove it, paid for it, etc.
With used car prices what they are, he should call Carmax and see what they would give him for his Jeep. He might be surprised.
I would think there would be more four wheel drive Wranglers out there than two wheel drive Wranglers. Do the 2X4s get better gas mileage? They would be lighter. Maybe somebody would be willing to make a trade? Is there any difference in price between the two on the used market? I mean, most of them never go off road. I would think that better gas mileage and less maintenance without the transfer case and other gear would be an advantage to some people.
Steve_Jones said:Appleseed said:Steve_Jones said:captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:How good is his insurance?
Is driving it through the front window of the dealership and then telling them now it is your problem, an option?
Why? What did the dealer do to deserve this?
He sold someone a 2wd Wrangler. That's reason enough.
No, that guy bought a 2wd Wrangler. I've never heard of anyone being forced to write a check for a car they don't want. Next time he won't be in such a hurry.
At some point, it's gotta be the fault of the guy that saw the truck, drove it, paid for it, etc.
Given that this forum of car nerds mostly didn't know 2WD Wranglers existed, and the dealer didn't know it was 2WD - what exactly would you expect someone to notice on a test drive? It would be like not noticing there was no trunk lid on a sedan. I think this was just a mistake on all parties - used cars dealers know even less about their cars than new car dealers do, and the buyer never would have thought to check.
Another vote for sell and replace. Cheaper in the long run and probably the short term as well.
In reply to Keith Tanner :
There's a huge 2nd shifter. It's not like it's just an AWD badge on the back. The carfax would say 2wd. I agree that we are car guys and most didn't know they were made, but how many of us are shopping Jeeps on a given day. How many of us test the wheel hop to make sure the 4x4 works on stuff we do look at? I'd guess most of us.
Any website this would have been advertised on would use a VIN explosion and would not say 4x4. It's right there on Auto Trader...
Before you spend your money on a 14 year old car, wouldn't you check the heat? A/C? Power windows? If you don't, that's on you, not on the guy that sold it to you. That's all I'm saying, it's not "someone else's fault" it's on the guy spending the money
Or, with a rear locker and the right tires aired down, driven correctly, it can probably do ok on Florida beaches (just make sure he goes with a buddy who can pull him out!)
We used to wheeling with a guy with a locked 2WD XJ and he did way more extreme stuff than 80% of the 4WD guys. Just gotta drive it right.
In reply to irish44j (Forum Supporter) :
At the last rallycross I visited (no car to drive, but I was there with a helmet and a hitchhikin' thumb) the proprietor mentioned embarrassing Mall-Rated Jeep owners on the trails with... a Mule. Including towing them out of jams.
In reply to Steve_Jones :
I think the transfer case shifter is obvious when it's there, but less obvious in its absence. My truck doesn't have one, it's got a knob on the dash. Meanwhile, my Land Rover has three levers sticking out of the floor :) Not everyone pulls a Carfax and it wouldn't occur to me to test "wheel hop" - and that would only work on a vehicle that doesn't have an open diff in the transfer case, so it wouldn't have worked on our WJ.
So yeah, buyer beware and all - but i can see how this is an honest mistake. I'm not trying to find someone to blame, because I can totally see how it would happen.
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