Dear Clean Carfax Report,...

Yeah, Carfax is pretty much a joke. Agree that a dirty one is good, a clean one means nothing.

Carfax pulls their info from insurance company and manufacturer (not dealership) records. So about the only way Carfax can show service history is if it's done at a dealership and that dealership shares its records with the manufacturer. I have seen Carfaxes which did not show timing belt replacement, the owner has a receipt from Midas etc and there's a sticker on the cover agreeing to the date and mileage.

Bodywork done without an insurance company being involved won't show. Seen that several times.

In reply to Datsun1500:

...And good luck getting Carfox to correct their mistakes that can significantly impact the future value of your vehicle. Luckily the worst I've had on my cars, so far, was moves showing up as changes in ownership and mildly incorrect mileage.

In reply to Driven5:

Yep, my fukus's record is a mess thanks to them, 3 major accidents and a minor one. The minor one involved an entire front clip and a roof panel.

Even worse was the "major" accident that mysteriously appeared dated 3mo after I purchased this car the first time back in 2004. The car was never involved in an accident until 2007 when that "minor" one occurred. That minor and the two remaining "major" accidents occurred after I sold it to my family in late 2006, one due to a tap in traffic and the other was backing into a Hyundai Accent damn near totaling it. Both times, only a buff to the bumpers.

I believe I have every right to be pissed at these berkeleyers, that first accident they report that never occurred berkeleyed me out of trading the car in on a used SVTF in early 2006. They WILL NOT FIX any errors and are evidently not liable for berkeleying you over.

I'd rather use it than not.

Carfax is definitely a trust but verify situation, designed for people who don't know what they're looking at or for. Just sucks that you made the journey just to find out that some shiny happy person wasn't willing to be upfront about the situation.

Driven5 wrote: In reply to Datsun1500: ...And good luck getting Carfox to correct their mistakes that can significantly impact the future value of your vehicle. Luckily the worst I've had on my cars, so far, was moves showing up as changes in ownership and incorrect mileage.

It's not Carfax's mistake...they are only reporting the data they receive.

In reply to Klayfish:

Yep, that's the line I got when I complained to them back in '06, along with a "we aren't liable for the correctness of our data" line of crap. They need a system in place to actually make sure they are correct/handle discrepancies before they ruin the value of someone's vehicle in error.

yamaha wrote: They WILL NOT FIX any errors and are evidently not liable for berkeleying you over.

And yet people still willingly support these 'business practices' by continuing to use the service...Right up until they are the ones being screwed over by it, that is.

.

Klayfish wrote: It's not Carfax's mistake...they are only reporting the data they receive.

Just like it's not the media's fault for what happens to a person, or business, as a direct result of reporting incorrect information that they received without verifying it first.

I had a dealer sell me a car clean only to have the accident appear a few months later...buyer beware

I deal with Carfax more than probably anyone here, it's a piece of what I do for a living...and is often the bane of my workday. However, you're shooting the messenger. What would you like Carfax to do? Track down every single car on the road and do a personal inspection to verify repairs were done as reported...or that the car has never been in an accident or had the timing belt changed? They are collecting the data that is made available and compiling it to try to give a "snapshot" of a vehicle. That data may be wrong because of errors by someone at a car dealer, body shop, insurance company, etc...who is typing data in. Let's say someone at a dealer or insurance company mistakenly flips 2 numbers in the VIN...they report it as ending in 45 instead of 54. How is Carfax to know they did that? Even if they can find out, they have no ability to change the data source.

Trust me, as I said, it can be the bane of my day and I'll scream louder than any of you regarding how people misuse it and the data in it...and the problems that causes. But that's just it...it's the people who don't know how to use the tool that Carfax is properly. I will say that while I have come across a few errors on Carfax, it's not as many as you'd think. Most of the true "errors" were with mileage reporting...not a whole lot of accidents showing up for a car that didn't have one.

They may not be able to change the source data, but the technology certainly exists to apply localized corrections to major inaccuracies within their own system...It seems that they have no financial, legal, or moral motivation to take on any liability for their reporting.

Klayfish wrote: What would you like Carfax to do? Track down every single car on the road and do a personal inspection to verify repairs were done as reported...

I'd like to be able to correct the wrong data. When they reported I had tampered with the odometer on my car while I owned it... Don't know how they came up with those data points, as the car was never serviced by any shop during that time. Of course there is no way to fix these "mistakes".

But, their bread and butter is creating drama in order to get people to buy their service. So accuracy and honesty would not serve their financial purpose.

Playing devils advocate to foxtrapper and Driven5...what would be the trigger point to make changes? A phone call from the alleged current owner of the car to say "Uh...the report says my car was totalled. It wasn't, please change it?" No...fraud would never happen that way, right? From what Datsun1500 said, sounds like they can/will make changes given the right circumstances. Good to know...I've never looked into it, as it's never been a need.

There is no way to prove a non-accident or such. When they false flag something, you've no way to prove it didn't happen.

How often do they screw up? It sounds like a prime candidate for a class action suite to me.

foxtrapper wrote:

Woody wrote: You are dead to me.

I don't understand why they were ever alive to you, or why you'd rely on them so heavily. A database that relies on people providing data to it for your third party perusal is inherently going to be flawed, inaccurate and missing data. Foolish to ever think otherwise.

All I was expecting from Carfax was an indication that the car was never damaged badly enough in the past to require an insurance claim for body work. Someone with fairly deep pockets must have banged this thing up in the past and written a big check for the repairs. That's not Carfax's fault. I was just unlucky. I still wouldn't buy a car without a close visual inspection first (and I didn't), but I thought that a highly detailed, clean Carfax would reduce the chances of a wasted trip to another state.

In reply to Datsun1500:

You're the first person I've heard from personally that has been successful in getting them to work with you to resolve the issue, let alone on multiple occasions. The other people I've talked to who have had problems ran into nothing but brick walls, even with a legitimate paperwork trail in hamd to provide a reasonable level of proof. Was this more recently, quite a while back, or a bit of both?

Datsun1500 wrote:

foxtrapper wrote: There is no way to prove a non-accident or such. When they false flag something, you've no way to prove it didn't happen.

They will if you follow the procedures. It's like challenging a credit report mistake. You fill out a form and say 'The accident reported on XX date never happened" They go back to the database and try to get proof that it did happen. if they can't, it is removed. I have seen a case where it said accident with airbags deployed and someone challenged it. The accident happened, but no airbags deployed. Carfax went to the insurance company and got the original report that showed no deployment, and fixed the report.

In that case, something did happen, and the documentation of it is there.
But when nothing happened, there is no proof or documentation of that non-event.

I've had this problem with them twice that I know of. Once they claimed I'd tampered with the odometer because they found the mileage too high. Another time they claimed I replaced a turbocharger. Neither event happened, but I had no proof to present that clearly showed they didn't happen. I certainly didn't have a receipt from some shop showing "no turbocharger replaced". Nor did I have a real way to prove I drove it and didn't roll the odometer forward like they alleged.

So again, when they claim I did something I didn't, there really isn't any way to prove otherwise. All you can give is your word that it didn't happen. And as you agree with them in refusing to accept that, their false claims stand on their reports.

In reply to Driven5:

I ran into a brick wall, but then again, I don't know how to manipulate these systems to my advantage. The only proof I have is that I could say the car had never been in Richmond, Indiana. EVER.

The way I see it, you pay them for a service when you get a report run....wouldn't an ethical business practice be to ensure accurate data?

In reply to Datsun1500:

Their customer service must have gotten a lot better since '06 or you're just very lucky.

In reply to Datsun1500:

Thanks for sharing your experience...Glad to know that it's not as difficult as it may have once been.

Datsun1500 wrote: As far as proving a non event, that is easy. You do not need to prove it did not happen, they need to prove it did happen. If they say you replaced a turbo, ask them where it was done and when. Make them show you the receipt. If they can't, tell them to remove it.

Sounds like they've improved the ability to report and correct mistakes. When I tried it years ago I don't remember any form, and the burden as far as they were concerned was on me to prove them wrong. They darn sure weren't saying how they decided my odometer was tampered with, or who supposedly changed my turbocharger.