Dear Toyota, I'm sort of pissed off at you...

ignorant wrote: Now the I'm going to guess the incident that Keith was talking about with his truck was the infamous head bolt problem on the 3.0 v6.

No, it was steering work and definitely a safety issue. I replaced the 3.0 on my own, there were piston bits in the oil. Not a head gasket problem but a Previous Owner problem

I did replace it with a Tundra, one of the originals (2000 model). The main reason was that I needed more poop for towing, especially at altitude. Loved that old truck, but it was not a powerhouse.

Yoder footed the bill on a new steering wheel, intermediate shaft brace, seat belts, and a/c valve of some sort (and refilled the system for free!) on my 230k mile 16 year old Celica.

The A/C was a recall, the rest were TSBs.

FWIW, my aunt bought a new Camry in 2006. She had the car dealer-serviced, on-time, per the manual.

She took it in for oil changes every 3500 miles. However, she would have the oil changed by her "regular mechanic" (maybe the Toyota mechanics should eat more fiber?).

With just over 34K on the clock (warranty goes to 36K) it developed what she described as "a ticky sound." Long story short, the car had low oil pressure and Toyota wouldn't fix it under warranty because, the dealer said, the car "never had an oil change."

My aunt had all the receipts from her mechanic and the car had an aftermarket oil filter on it. If the car didn't ever have an oil change, then how did the big orange "FRAM" filter get there?

She ended up paying for a new replacement engine.

M030 wrote: She ended up paying for a new replacement engine.

Did she elevate to corp and call the customer line? With any manufacturer it is the way to get things done when the dealer is of little to know help.

( my wife did it to Alexia Potatoes last week cause their packaging design sucks... So they sent us Coupons for $$$$ off.)

ignorant wrote:

M030 wrote: She ended up paying for a new replacement engine.

Did she elevate to corp and call the customer line? With any manufacturer it is the way to get things done when the dealer is of little to know help.

As much as I disagree with iggy on most issues, he is right in this case. I would bet that most car companies would do the same thing if it wasn't elevated to at least a regional manager.

A friend of mine had an engine failure in his Subaru (internal oiling problem, 1997 2.5) right after it got out of warranty. No warning, not even a low pressure light. He'd always had the oil changed at the dealer. Subaru bought him a new motor, but only after he escalated.

ignorant wrote:

M030 wrote: She ended up paying for a new replacement engine.

Did she elevate to corp and call the customer line? With any manufacturer it is the way to get things done when the dealer is of little to know help. ( my wife did it to Alexia Potatoes last week cause their packaging design sucks... So they sent us Coupons for $$$$ off.)

I've seen several Lexi and yoduh ownerswith the same issue here. Called the DSM, and was denied.

Bobzilla wrote:

ignorant wrote:

M030 wrote: She ended up paying for a new replacement engine.

Did she elevate to corp and call the customer line? With any manufacturer it is the way to get things done when the dealer is of little to know help. ( my wife did it to Alexia Potatoes last week cause their packaging design sucks... So they sent us Coupons for $$$$ off.)

I've seen several Lexi and yoduh ownerswith the same issue here. Called the DSM, and was denied.

then you go above him.

Not my car. Of the 4 I';ve seen in the last year they all traded for something not toyota. People should not have to fight tooth and nail to get the manufacturer to cover a known defect (engine sludging, head gaskets, rust, poor welds, transmissions etc). Especially since you seem to think they are so great at covering this stuff.

Bobzilla wrote: Especially since you seem to think they are so great at covering this stuff.

Have fun living in disagreement land.. We will Assimilate you.

ignorant wrote:

Woody wrote: That's the difference between a TSB and a Recall.

They'll take care of you. Toyota knows one thing. It is cheaper to keep a customer, even if you have to buy back the truck (see frame issue) than it is to get a new customer. Something like 50% cheaper to keep a customer..

Sony knows this too. I have a PS2 and have had it for almost 9 years. When it was three years old (two years out of warranty) the disk drive wore out. I called them up, got instructions for what to do, mailed the unit to them and before I even became concerned about the fact that I hadn't heard anything from the billing department, they sent it back to me in perfect order and for no charge. I couldn't believe it.

I agree with Ignorant here. Call 'em up and see if they'll help you out. They probably will.

Me too...

My wife had an 05 rav-4 whose undercarriage looked worse than my 74 scamp! I discovered some rust about 3 months ago while changing the oil...a small piece of undercoating was flaking off so I decided to use a screwdriver to "clean it up"...the screwdriver ended up going through the floor board. After wire brushing some of the area it had multiple perforations. We ended up trading it off, but come on a 4 year old car shouldn't do that...and it was taken care of!

Woody wrote: My point is, they probably were aware of it before I bought the truck.

I agree completely that they should have fixed it then and even now, especially since it is a known production problem. I'm not arguing against your feelings at all.

I just see a lot of people who bust a bloodvessel and expect a "recall" for a common flaw or issue, when that's not what recalls are or how they work.

Thousands of people got all jacked up and demanded a "recall" for the famous Neon 420A headgasket issue and wasted much weeping an gnashing of teeth about how terrible it was that Chrysler wasn't recalling the cars since there was a known problem.

What they refused to understand was that the headgasket was a likely failure but it was still not going to happen to every car, and even if it did it was not a question of loss of control or catching on fire. Consequently Chrysler issued a TSB and gave a lot of goodwill headgasket jobs to people who noticed the problem and asked. But no car company is ever going to recall a large number of cars just because a problem might occur, unless that problem is going to lead directly to an accident or fire.

Since we've moved beyond car companies as a whole, let me put a good word out for Bilstein. Extraordinary customer service. Some shop I bought shocks from apparently just gathered the parts in their store, put them in the box and sold them to me. The sleeve that the lower mounting bolt goes into was way too small and tight on the bolt. It obviously did not belong. I called Bilstein on a whim and they said "ship it to us."

After a couple weeks (takes a while to ship from NC to CA and back) I had the correct parts. They covered everything. They paid for shipping and the parts. They even mentioned that they did not have that particular sleeve in stock, but they knew I was in a time crunch to get my car on the track, so they machined it right away and sent it back. As for the old sleeve, they said they had never seen anything like it and that it would likely have sheered right off the car given enough time.

MedicineMan wrote: Me too... My wife had an 05 rav-4 whose undercarriage looked worse than my 74 scamp! I discovered some rust about 3 months ago while changing the oil...a small piece of undercoating was flaking off so I decided to use a screwdriver to "clean it up"...the screwdriver ended up going through the floor board. After wire brushing some of the area it had multiple perforations. We ended up trading it off, but come on a 4 year old car shouldn't do that...and it was taken care of!

Don't most new cars have like a 5 year no rust through warranty or something?

Yeah, required by law in the '80s. Rumored to be the cause of the Nissan Hardbody name.

ignorant wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: Especially since you seem to think they are so great at covering this stuff.

Have fun living in disagreement land.. We will Assimilate you.

No, you won't. I live and breathe car warranty everyday. I knwo what I see. I know what happens. I'm not changing my mind over some "person" over teh interwebby. Period.

Bobzilla wrote: I'm not changing my mind over some "person" over teh interwebby. Period.

I suspect ignorant would say the same thing. I could really care less about Toyota and their good/bad service as I don't own one and don't foresee buying one. I have read a few books about their continuous improvement process and corporate culture that were interesting. Still doesn't change the fact that their vehicles are boring transportation appliances, even if they are well made.

My point is you two are not going to agree on this so why keep talking about it?

JeepinMatt wrote: Since we've moved beyond car companies as a whole, let me put a good word out for Bilstein. Extraordinary customer service.

Similar experience... a few years back I blew out the right front strut from ponking the curb at the entrance to the the bus stop at Watkins Glen (before the IRL made them cut it down). They replaced it free of charge anyway - knowing full well it was not even close to "normal wear and tear".

TJ wrote: My point is you two are not going to agree on this so why keep talking about it?

but I have to stroke my e-penis....

I've owned Datsuns, Chevys, Fords, and Toyotas. Based on first-hand experience I will never buy another GM product - they've lost a customer for life. Seems like the seam sealer issue is more is mostly the fault of the dealer to have told you. Yeah, Toyota screwed up by not applying it in the first place, but at least it didn't cost thousands to repair.

I've owned them all too, and based on my experiences, especially the warranty service, and repair, I have nothing but good things to say about GM. They have treated me very well. If my Toyota experience was better, I might be driving one now, and I'm not.

They all make good cars now, and they all make mistakes. Customer service is certainly objective, and definitely better in some dealers than others.

YMMV

TJ wrote: Still doesn't change the fact that [Toyota] vehicles are boring transportation appliances, even if they are well made.

I'ts a truck, how exciting can they be? I can say that what is exciting is taking your 1995 Camaro Z28 to the dealer - again - and trying to guess how much it would cost to fix that time. In the five years I owned it from new, it ran up $4500 in warranty repairs, plus another couple thousand that weren't. GM = No thanks. They did it to themselves.

Then there was the Toyota 4 x 4 my sister had. Way out of warrantee, and the engine failed due to the oil sludge problem. Toyota replaced her engine for free. That's customer service, and they know full well that everyone's going to run around and tell everyone they know about it. Yup.

try driving a 1990 2-door Cherokee. Then you will know about leaks that manage to saturate the carpet in all areas of the interior