Demphasizing the Hemi

Trans_Maro wrote: The Hemi moniker once meant something. It doesn't mean anything to a modern car. Hell, the 3T-C in my Corolla is a Hemi. The Hemi was impressive in it's day but it wasn't the end-all, be-all that Hemi fans would like you to believe. The 440 six-pack was known to put the hurt on 426 Hemi cars on a fairly reglular basis. Buick GS Stage 1 cars, LS-6 and ZL-1 'vettes also gave them trouble. Shawn

The Hemi suffered off teh lien versus these cars, but was faster by the end of the track. The GS 455 Stage 1 engine is an unsung hero of the muscle car era. 510 ft. lbs. of torque.

MrBenjamonkey wrote:

Moparman wrote: In reply to jrw1621: A rose by any other name eh? I still think you don't give up brand identity. With the multi displacement system it isn't too bad. Besides, people buying Hemis are not doing so for fuel mileage. Let;s call the Corvette the Chevrolet Sportster. It sounds cuter and not so politically inorrect. Corvette, Mustang and Hemi are icons and should not be tampered with, IMHO. God I am becoming an old fart.

The Corvette gets 26 mpg. The Mustang gets about the same. Just saying.

The rwd Hemi 300 is EPA rated at 25 MPG highway thanks to MDS. Not too bad for a large brick.

I admit I love V8s, but a return to the turbo-Dodge days would be alright with me.

I usually get 22-23 mpg in my miata. Maybe I should buy a vette instead to save money on gas. I have gained a few pounds this year, I figure I need about 10 more years, 30 more pounds, and a gold chain and then I'll be ready.

Agree with the Hemi moniker being akin to Harley marketing. It is away for them to set themselves apart. I think it works. I bet the average non-car person has heard of a "hemi", but not LSx. Marketing is almost always aimed at the masses.

Didn't Alfa Romeo more or less invent hemispherical combustion? Can anyone tell me if I'm right on this, it seems I read that somewhere. Maybe Fiat has a bit more right to call some shots in this regard than Dodge does.

Whether or not it is actually a "Hemi" engine isn't really the point. These are pretty darn good engines and I guaranty that little badge has sold its fair share of cars from the 300 to the Ram.

Why would you kill the badge? That is just plain DUMB. If people don't want it they have other engine options! Why is this world pandering to dumb people?

Keep the Hemi, kill the Patriot/Compass cr@p.

forzav12 wrote:

Trans_Maro wrote: The Hemi moniker once meant something. It doesn't mean anything to a modern car. Hell, the 3T-C in my Corolla is a Hemi. The Hemi was impressive in it's day but it wasn't the end-all, be-all that Hemi fans would like you to believe. The 440 six-pack was known to put the hurt on 426 Hemi cars on a fairly reglular basis. Buick GS Stage 1 cars, LS-6 and ZL-1 'vettes also gave them trouble. Shawn

uh, yeah it was. Ever hear of the Silver Bullet? Street racer that never lost a race on the mean streets of New York back in the muscle car heyday. I used to run muscle out here on the west coast. Sure, in mild street trim the Buicks, Wedges, Fords and such were strong runners. When folks got serious it was Rats and Hemis. Guy out here used to hit the local socal cruises. He'd lean against his '66 Hemi Satellite until all the poseurs had finished throwing revs and chirping tires from the red lights. Eventually, someone would approach him with a fist-full of cash, they'd head over to the industrial park, the Hemi would win and that would be that. ZL1 Vettes? You are kidding , right? Did one of the three built cruise the streets in your area? They still basing top fuel engines(still the most powerful race cars ever built) off of Buford's and Rats? your Corolla? Didn't think so.

That explains all of the hemis in pro stock for the past twenty years...

tuna55 wrote:

forzav12 wrote:

Trans_Maro wrote: The Hemi moniker once meant something. It doesn't mean anything to a modern car. Hell, the 3T-C in my Corolla is a Hemi. The Hemi was impressive in it's day but it wasn't the end-all, be-all that Hemi fans would like you to believe. The 440 six-pack was known to put the hurt on 426 Hemi cars on a fairly reglular basis. Buick GS Stage 1 cars, LS-6 and ZL-1 'vettes also gave them trouble. Shawn

uh, yeah it was. Ever hear of the Silver Bullet? Street racer that never lost a race on the mean streets of New York back in the muscle car heyday. I used to run muscle out here on the west coast. Sure, in mild street trim the Buicks, Wedges, Fords and such were strong runners. When folks got serious it was Rats and Hemis. Guy out here used to hit the local socal cruises. He'd lean against his '66 Hemi Satellite until all the poseurs had finished throwing revs and chirping tires from the red lights. Eventually, someone would approach him with a fist-full of cash, they'd head over to the industrial park, the Hemi would win and that would be that. ZL1 Vettes? You are kidding , right? Did one of the three built cruise the streets in your area? They still basing top fuel engines(still the most powerful race cars ever built) off of Buford's and Rats? your Corolla? Didn't think so.

That explains all of the hemis in pro stock for the past twenty years...

yeah, cuz the Hemi was never restricted in Pro Stock.....sheesh, that is the weakest of sauce. I guess since there haven't been any in Nascar for decades it means the Hemi wasn't strong there either? Oh yeah, they were essentially banned.

Moparman wrote:

Trans_Maro wrote: The Hemi moniker once meant something. It doesn't mean anything to a modern car. Hell, the 3T-C in my Corolla is a Hemi. The Hemi was impressive in it's day but it wasn't the end-all, be-all that Hemi fans would like you to believe. The 440 six-pack was known to put the hurt on 426 Hemi cars on a fairly reglular basis. Buick GS Stage 1 cars, LS-6 and ZL-1 'vettes also gave them trouble. Shawn

The Hemi suffered off teh lien versus these cars, but was faster by the end of the track. The GS 455 Stage 1 engine is an unsung hero of the muscle car era. 510 ft. lbs. of torque.

I've owned both. I'll take the Buick every day as a street cruiser. Slicks, gears and money on the line? Elephant power, baby!

I thought it was dumb when they tried to call it a 5.7 Hemi Magnum V-8. Yes they did.

miatame wrote: Why is this world pandering to dumb people?

Because there are a lot of them, and they have money to spend?

"Hemi" is just a brand name associated with performance, without any cute little connection to "green."

"EcoBoost" is an ingenious bit of marketing.

"EcoBoost" is an ingenious bit of marketing.

Heh, its a shamelessly misleading bit of marketing, but ingenious.

I am fine with them restricting the Hemi moniker to performance cars.

Talking about old-school factory muscle car street racing.. you realize you are comparing stock, lightly or badly modified motors, right? The Hemi's potential was pretty ridiculous compared to most of the other stock big blocks. And talking about the Hemi being weak off the line? Guys.. we dont use 60's-era fuel control and cam design anymore. Engines being weak at low rpm BECAUSE they were strong at high-rpm is a thing of a bygone era, why bother talking about it?

Also, the Hemi engine itself suffers not from lack of awesomeness but from the way chrysler's been run in the last decade. The glass ceiling of hemi horsepower would have been a lot higher if M-B and AMG had mover their own up a little bit. As of right now... and the last how many years?.. the srt hemi has been rated at 425 chp or something like that. WAAY back when the hemi first was released, Hot Rod magazine took a stock (345hp non-srt) hemi, put a cam and headers on it and revved it to 7000 rpm, and it made 481 hp. That is a NON srt motor with VERY few mods. All this time later the supercharged gt500 and Zr1 arent much past that, and there arent many supercharged Hemis that DONT make that power. If the v-10 hadn't been grandfathered in before the hemi came on the scene, do you honestly think the hemi would still be rated at 425 hp?

So basically, to talk about the hemis actual potential, new or old, you REALLY need to consider the politics and technology of the day.. whether its cams and carbs making the 426 'soft' on bottom or the new hemi suffering from brand mis-management and a glass ceiling at the hands of Daimler-Benz.

3sgtes have hemispherical heads.

They don't/didn't call it the Hemi because they're claiming it was the only engine that was a hemi. It was a way to designate their particular engine. The same way Chevy didn't shy away from badging the hell out of the 396. It wasn't the only engine that was 396 cubic inches, but it was known as the 396 (even when it wasn't really a 396, but a 402). Or Ford and their Cammer. I don't think anyone thought that Ford was trying to claim to be the only OHC engine on the market.

The trail rated badge should go ahead.

It used to be a requirement that a jeep could do the rubicon stock before it would be a jeep.

That badge is the enemy.

sorry for the jack.

ignorant wrote: The trail rated badge should go ahead. It used to be a requirement that a jeep could do the rubicon stock before it would be a jeep. That badge is the enemy. sorry for the jack.

Right on. Now they've got things like the Compass floating around. Instead of giving it a beating on the Rubicon, they give it a beating with the ugly stick.

TJ wrote: I usually get 22-23 mpg in my miata. Maybe I should buy a vette instead to save money on gas. I have gained a few pounds this year, I figure I need about 10 more years, 30 more pounds, and a gold chain and then I'll be ready. Agree with the Hemi moniker being akin to Harley marketing. It is away for them to set themselves apart. I think it works. I bet the average non-car person has heard of a "hemi", but not LSx. Marketing is almost always aimed at the masses.

This is slightly off topic, but how is it that I almost always beat the EPA estimate for mileage and magazines never do? I drive fast, btw.

Vigo wrote:

"EcoBoost" is an ingenious bit of marketing.

Heh, its a shamelessly misleading bit of marketing, but ingenious. I am fine with them restricting the Hemi moniker to performance cars. Talking about old-school factory muscle car street racing.. you realize you are comparing stock, lightly or badly modified motors, right? The Hemi's potential was pretty ridiculous compared to most of the other stock big blocks. And talking about the Hemi being weak off the line? Guys.. we dont use 60's-era fuel control and cam design anymore. Engines being weak at low rpm BECAUSE they were strong at high-rpm is a thing of a bygone era, why bother talking about it? Also, the Hemi engine itself suffers not from lack of awesomeness but from the way chrysler's been run in the last decade. The glass ceiling of hemi horsepower would have been a lot higher if M-B and AMG had mover their own up a little bit. As of right now... and the last how many years?.. the srt hemi has been rated at 425 chp or something like that. WAAY back when the hemi first was released, Hot Rod magazine took a stock (345hp non-srt) hemi, put a cam and headers on it and revved it to 7000 rpm, and it made 481 hp. That is a NON srt motor with VERY few mods. All this time later the supercharged gt500 and Zr1 arent much past that, and there arent many supercharged Hemis that DONT make that power. If the v-10 hadn't been grandfathered in before the hemi came on the scene, do you honestly think the hemi would still be rated at 425 hp? So basically, to talk about the hemis actual potential, new or old, you REALLY need to consider the politics and technology of the day.. whether its cams and carbs making the 426 'soft' on bottom or the new hemi suffering from brand mis-management and a glass ceiling at the hands of Daimler-Benz.

Just sprinkle a few, "Miatas are awesome" comments into your post once in a while or no one here will take you seriously.

In reply to Vigo:

So now you're comparing a modded hemi with a stock gt500? The gt500 was under rated and can make 650-700 with a few mods. What's your point?

My point is that there would BE a 550+hp supercharged hemi from the factory if it werent for M-B, so to say the hemi is 'not that great' is really a misguided way of saying that M-B didnt let loose the reins. Factory power ratings in this case have more to do with politics than design potential.

At the end of the day, though, you can bet we wouldnt be talking about 600 hp vettes and mustangs with superchargers if there hadnt been a 600hp viper without one.

MIATAS ARE COOL!