Depreciation Kings that get a Bad Rap

rwdsport wrote: The next generation M45 is significantly more attractive and regularly stomped it's competition in all comparos (550I, E550,LS460, whatever Jag equivalent). BMW driving fun and sporting demeanor with Lexus reliability. Best DD I have ever had by far, an E46 feels like it was clapped together with plastic clips in comparison. I would try to get one with the tech and sport package to get some impressive tech for it's day. I would say if you want something luxurious and very reliable while being in that sweet depreciation spot without being too archaic the M45 and LS430 are some of the best options out there. The Infinity will have a more sporting demeanor (it's actually pretty tail happy with the dynamic 4 wheel steering; Sport Package) while the Lexus will isolate you from the road better. To appreciably improve on this car I feel like I would have to get into an W212 E63 but those are about 4-5 times the cost at the moment so we will wait a couple of years.

Wow, this seems like a LOT of car for under $5k - 2007 M45

Anything to know about these that could creep up on you?

Wow, started looking at M45's and they sure seem to be a lot of car for the money.

And just wanted to add that we have an LS430. We bought the most stripped '01 I could find (just sunroof and Levinson sound), and it still runs perfectly at 177k with just regular preventative maintenance. The only known problem area for the whole run (01-06) was some 04's had transmission issues since that was the first year of the 6-speed automatic. If there are any issues with the 01-03 cars that would be news to me.

M45's are SO ugly tho

SEADave wrote: If there are any issues with the 01-03 cars that would be news to me.

The Levinson amp is really the only issue I can think of with the 01-03 cars. They went through multiple revisions that improved them, but the early ones were extremely unreliable. If yours works, I suspect you have a rebuilt one or a newer replacement. I have one from an 03 in my 2001 GS430 because it was cheaper than having mine rebuilt.

Cadillac sedans depreciate like crazy, as well. The ATS (non-V) is a great example.

EDIT: Volvos and Saabs depreciate like crazy, as well.

Nick (Bo) Comstock wrote:

pinchvalve wrote: The M45 might never make you any money, but it would be an enjoyable luxury sport sedan that probably won't break down.

I saw one of those in my neighborhood the other day and was drooling all over it. Very handsome styling.

Like many of the 90s japanese sports cars (300zx, fd rx7, 2nd gen nsx) this car also aged really well, and still manages to look much newer than it is.

Nick (Bo) Comstock wrote:

pinchvalve wrote: The M45 might never make you any money, but it would be an enjoyable luxury sport sedan that probably won't break down.

I saw one of those in my neighborhood the other day and was drooling all over it. Very handsome styling.

One of the best looking modern Nissans imo.

mndsm wrote:

Nick (Bo) Comstock wrote:

pinchvalve wrote: The M45 might never make you any money, but it would be an enjoyable luxury sport sedan that probably won't break down.

I saw one of those in my neighborhood the other day and was drooling all over it. Very handsome styling.

One of the best looking modern Nissans imo.

I drove one of those once, they are really nice cars. Pretty rare too I believe.

mndsm wrote:

Nick (Bo) Comstock wrote:

pinchvalve wrote: The M45 might never make you any money, but it would be an enjoyable luxury sport sedan that probably won't break down.

I saw one of those in my neighborhood the other day and was drooling all over it. Very handsome styling.

One of the best looking modern Nissans imo.

I find myself agreeing with this statement, but it surely is a case of damning with faint praise.

That Infiniti M45 was only offered in 2003 & 2004. Wiki says less than 8,000 units total over the two year run.

The name M45 continued on with same 4.5L but a different body/look.

Count me in as loving the square look of these rare M45!

dj06482 wrote: Cadillac sedans depreciate like crazy, as well.

For good reason

I always think of the Nissan Leaf as a depreciation king. I found this 2011 with less than 40k miles for under $6,000. The MSRP was $33,600 6 years ago, meaning it's lost about 82% of its value in 6 years. Hell you can find 2013s for under $8,000 all day long.

They're incredibly good cars if you can live with their range.

In reply to Erich:

What kind of range does a 2011 Leaf have at this point?

In reply to ¯_(ツ)_/¯:

Honestly I don't know the 2011s, but from my experience people noticed much better battery aging starting in 2013. My 2013 still has 98% of the original range, so about 75 miles or so.

Erich wrote: In reply to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯: Honestly I don't know the 2011s, but from my experience people noticed much better battery aging starting in 2013. My 2013 still has 98% of the original range, so about 75 miles or so.

Hadn't considered the EV's for this thread, but you are right. I've noticed Volts and Leaf's with low mileage for well under $15k. They also seem to be very reliable and require minimal maintenance. I guess we owe some of that to gas getting and staying so cheap these past few years.

Erich wrote: I always think of the Nissan Leaf as a depreciation king. I found this 2011 with less than 40k miles for under $6,000. The MSRP was $33,600 6 years ago, meaning it's lost about 82% of its value in 6 years. Hell you can find 2013s for under $8,000 all day long. They're incredibly good cars if you can live with their range.

Yep, good point. The i-Miev would fall into the same category.

oldtin wrote: If you're going down a rabbit hole - go deep - Maserati Quattroporte. Seeing 2006/7 cars well under 20k. Ferrari V8 goodness. After 2005 a lot of the clutch issues got resolved (early cars ate clutches if you used reverse much, or at all - basically manual transmissions, but paddle shifted and no 3rd pedal - later cars got actual automatic transmissions that worked).

I remember around 2007-08 I went to an Italian car show in the Boston area (Tutto Italiano at the Larz Anderson in Brookline, this year's event is this Sunday!) and the local Maserati dealer brought one of these there in a Sport trim. The sticker price was just over $130k. I was checking it out when I noticed that the center arm rest leather was coming un-stitched and the leather was just flapping around on it. I thought to myself: If they can't get the armrests right on a car that costs north of $130k, how is the rest of the car going to hold up?

I've seen these under $10k locally recently that need work, but don't they all? They probably would make nice lawn ornaments, though. They sure are pretty!

Tony Sestito wrote: I've seen these under $10k locally recently that need work, but don't they all? They probably would make nice lawn ornaments, though. They sure are pretty!

They're pretty from the side and back. Front is not as nice.

Lexus 430 (any of them) is a great answer since the original owners were probably really conscientious with dealer maintenance and these didn't need much attention anyway. So their first 100k miles were a cakewalk and they're ready to give 200k+ to their next owner. A ton of car for short money.

I bought an LS430 for my wife a couple of years ago. Its been great. I just had the timing belt (and all of the other stuff in there) done at 80k. I've been thinking about getting one for myself lately. People say to watch out for the UL model's air suspension. It is expensive to fix, or not so expensive to replace with normal coil shocks.

The Q45 is another interesting choice, but much harder to find. The Acura RL is nice too, but not as nice and not as much of depreciation as a percentage of original price.

S80 V8. Same platform as the Taurus SHO but with the final development of the lovely Yamaha V8. AWD, nice to drive and a total sleeper. Can be had for between 6K to 10K in GREAT shape.

Tony Sestito wrote:

oldtin wrote: If you're going down a rabbit hole - go deep - Maserati Quattroporte. Seeing 2006/7 cars well under 20k. Ferrari V8 goodness. After 2005 a lot of the clutch issues got resolved (early cars ate clutches if you used reverse much, or at all - basically manual transmissions, but paddle shifted and no 3rd pedal - later cars got actual automatic transmissions that worked).

I remember around 2007-08 I went to an Italian car show in the Boston area (Tutto Italiano at the Larz Anderson in Brookline, this year's event is this Sunday!) and the local Maserati dealer brought one of these there in a Sport trim. The sticker price was just over $130k. I was checking it out when I noticed that the center arm rest leather was coming un-stitched and the leather was just flapping around on it. I thought to myself: If they can't get the armrests right on a car that costs north of $130k, how is the rest of the car going to hold up? I've seen these under $10k locally recently that need work, but don't they all? They probably would make nice lawn ornaments, though. They sure are pretty!

There's one of these in silver in my building. Looks great from behind, especially given its 10" - 11" wide meats. I've never seen its parking space vacated, though. Must be a permanent installation.

The Equus and Genesis sedans seem to have used Benz depreciation.

DrBoost wrote:

CobraSpdRH wrote:

oldtin wrote: If you're going down a rabbit hole - go deep - Maserati Quattroporte. Seeing 2006/7 cars well under 20k. Ferrari V8 goodness. After 2005 a lot of the clutch issues got resolved (early cars ate clutches if you used reverse much, or at all - basically manual transmissions, but paddle shifted and no 3rd pedal - later cars got actual automatic transmissions that worked).

So this is an example of huge depreciation, but is it deserved? I would be inclined to say "yes", based on maintenance and upkeep costs, but I haven't had the opportunity to prove or disprove it. Seems like a lot of good options, but how many of these would actually be fun to bring home and not break your wallet? The Infiniti's seem like a good choice, but are a fraction of the depreciation of some of these other cars. The Boxster seems like a really good contender as well.

Even if the engine popped on the way home, I'd love to just park that beauty in my garage so I could sit in a lawn chain on Sunday mornings, just looking at it sipping coffee.

I think if I bought a Quattroporte, I'd immediately start collecting parts for an LS swap. With maybe some 180 deg headers to hide it.

One of my co-workers has a couple of Lexuses (Lexi?). The first he bought new for his wife (for Christmas - bow and everything) and a second one a couple of years ago he got as a CPO lease. All I can say is the Lexus reputation for reliability is somewhat exaggerated. His wife's car had to get the engine rebuilt due to some weird piston defect. Both cars are at the dealer for some strange thing at least twice a year.

At least twice a year? Pssshhhh

CobraSpdRH wrote: So, I'm curious, what do we see as cars that have depreciated like a rock but maybe not by any fault of their own? While a $15k Audi S6 with the Lambo-derived V10 may not be the best idea, maybe a $15k Genesis 5.0 R-Spec is?

Lambo-derived? Huh? It's two Jetta engines joined at the crank. The S6 doesn't have a Lambo engine, the Lambo has a VW economy car engine.

Does sound nice though. And way more pocketbook-friendly than the twin turbo V6.

Hyundai is never the answer to anything unless you like bleeding money in order to prop up crappy-feeling hardware. I've never driven a Hyundai that felt any good, and I've had the chance to drive a new Genesis Coupe with the Brembo package. I'll take a 200k mile Audi over a new Hyundai, fit and finish wise, anyday!