Did dad get ripped off? (Camry O2 sensor content)

Dads 2004 Camry 2.4L failed inspection for emissions for an O2 sensor at Midas.

He shows me the bill to replace it: $82.41 just to scan it while our locals parts stores all do it FREE.

Parts total (one o2 sensor) $205.49

Labor total $204.80

Shop supplies $26.27

Tax $12.84

Total Invoice for a stupid o2 sensor replacement: $449.40!!!!

I can get an o2 sensor for under $30 and maybe if I'm slow, take a half-hour to replace it.

Are they taking advantage of my dad? I have my opinion but I'd like to hear from you more knowledgable guys.

The parts price is high but not outrageous assuming they used an OEM sensor at full retail from the dealer parts counter. But that sounds like at least 2 hours labor. I'm an amateur and not that bright, and I can change an O2 sensor in half an hour, using a damn floor jack and hand tools.

Unless they had to send the tech out to procure one manually.

What do you think?

An o2 sensor is really $80 and it takes 5 minutes to change. Let's say it takes 10 to get it on the lift. 10 to put it back outside... a smoke break. 30 minutes. Labor rate is probably $100/hr. So say they round to the hour. That's $180. $200 tops for the 20% sensor markup from the dealer.

I think they shafted him considering I could do the whole thing for $50 max and 1/2 hour.

I can't wrap my head around any of it. I just had my water pump replaced for significantly less than that.

I'm betting the shop is flat rate. The one I worked at charged 1.5 hr diagnostic + .5 hour r/r on most O2 sensors. I'm in no way condoning how they do things, but this unfortunately doesn't sound atypical to me. I certainly couldn't afford to pay someone to work on all my junk, that's why I had to learn how.

Mitchell calls for between 0.9 and 1.0 hours depending on which sensor it is. Maybe it's hard to get to? Labor is way high still. Shop supplies are ridiculous, we capped ours at $10.

I made it an SE auto, doubt trim level and trans make a whole lot of difference.

Isn't this how Midas stays in business?

Won't be getting any more of my dad's business I know that.

Don't have the details ATM but last time they pulled the same crap. Slow learner I guess.

Datsun1500 wrote: List price on that sensor, through Toyota is $200. Even though we know we can get another brand, online for $40, that's not how a shop does it. Did he get ripped off? No, he got charged full retail, at a retail shop, which is where he took it to get the work done.

I had a couple paragraph reply explaining all the intricacies of why the shop probably charged what they did. But that^ sums it up perfectly.

Datsun1500 wrote: List price on that sensor, through Toyota is $200. Even though we know we can get another brand, online for $40, that's not how a shop does it. Did he get ripped off? No, he got charged full retail, at a retail shop, which is where he took it to get the work done.

Thank you.

I don't want to hear anyone in this thread complain about the loss of small business in the US.

Its not an oxygen sensor, its an air/fuel ratio sensor. They are a bit unpleasant to accurately diagnose watching scan data, since they don't give the same type of easily scoped signal as an old style sensor. Having said that, the cars ECU is generally pretty good at telling you when its gone south, so the cheapest deal is often to just replace based on the code, providing they read the code set criteria properly. I can't tell you how many times I have people show up here saying, "I had a free code scan and they said it was an O2 code, and I changed the sensor, and it still sets the code." Well, that would be because the sensor was reading correctly. Now lets see why the fuel trims are so far off...

If you guys are just so berkeleying sure its always easy to change an oxygen sensor, you haven't changed many oxygen sensors. Sometimes easy, sometimes seized, sometimes no way to get a wrench to it, sometimes the electrical connector is buried. (Volvo)

Finally, I wouldn't trust a muffler shop with advanced diagnosis.

In reply to Streetwiseguy:

Slow your roll there champ!

I clearly don't know as much as you do but I've never run into an o2 code that wasn't cleared by replacing the sensor. But that's only been my experience with a Ford, a Suzuki, another Ford, a Mazda, a Chrysler and a Chevy. They were all under $70 and took under a half hour for this dummy to replace.

Your milage obviously may vary, wow!

In all seriousness though thanks for your contribution. I can see you're passionate about this stuff and that's a good thing.

Edit: I wouldn't trust a muffler shop with it either but my dad is almost 80 and got taken a bit IMO and doesn't understand these things.

I personally have been taking my stuff to a small, three-person shop who still remembers my Samurai from 15 years ago. My dad will be going to M&S Auto in Bridgewater, MA. from now on!

Midas for an O2 sensor? How could that go wrong.

A local triple-A quoted my mom $260 to replace a common item. I found the part online for $28, combining the order with some other stuff I wanted in order to get free shipping. It took me a leisurely 45 minutes to replace, including putting the front of the car on jackstands in my driveway. So it cost me a little more than 10% of the quoted price.

I told this "rip-off" story to my friend, trusted marque specialist and shop owner, who countered:

You're the 1% that knows:

A) what the part costs and B) how to actually install it

The clear implication was that he would have charged about the same as AAA.

I think your dad might have had the work done for a Benjamin less had he shopped around. Ripped-off? I don't think so.

Charging for work that isn't done, or isn't necessary is a rip-off. Charging top dollar for easy jobs is buyer beware....

bludroptop wrote: Charging for work that isn't done, or isn't necessary is a rip-off. Charging top dollar for easy jobs is buyer beware....

After thinking more about it and calming down (it sucks when the son becomes the adult as the father becomes the child as we age), I think this sums it up fairly.

Agree with the let this go and move on line of thought. If you live close by, maybe convince your dad to call you when the car needs something and you can either do it yourself or take it a place that will not charge as much. Paying more than he could've doesn't necessarily mean he was ripped off, just means he paid more than he could of.

The thing is, my parents live with us and this still happens (going to Midas, buying a brand new riding lawnmover instead of letting me fix his, etc.)

I've convinced him to take it to the small shop I go to that treats me very well in the future.

You guys realize this happens in every industry right? People just get all bent out of shape about it in automotive.

You can always do it cheaper yourself, or find a joe schmoe that will do it cheaper.

They are in the business of making a profit, doing it for a few bucks and no mark up on the part doesnt keep the lights on or get all that fancy equipment paid for.

Like said earlier, he got charged retail, the fact that you can get the part for 13 cents online and do it in 20 seconds, is completely irrelevant unless you are the one doing the work.

And your local parts store pulls codes for free, which almost anyone will do, good shops (whether this midas was one or not, who knows), big difference from someone actually diagnosing a problem.

Don't forget, pulling codes with a cheap little code reader is different than using a professional scantool.

Our Snap-On Solus gives me a LOT more info than the little, cheapo units that schuckspepzone uses.

The pro level tools let you run diagnostics to tell if that O2 sensor code is a just a bad sensor or something else causing it. A lean code could be low fuel pressure, a bad injector, etc. Not just an o2 sensor.

The computer doesn't tell you what part to replace, it tells you what system to start troubleshooting.

If they just swapped in a new sensor in 20 minutes and sent him home without doing a proper drive cycle on the car to check if the code comes back, then a couple days later it throws a code again, you'd be complaining about the shoddy work.

I do think the price sounds high but I don't have a firm grasp of what other shops charge nowadays, or what that sensor cost.

dean1484 wrote: Midas for anything? How could that go wrong?

FTFY.

I have had 02 sensors stuck on cars that I was NOT able to take off. One of them actually ripped out of the exhaust pipe and I had to reweld a new bung on the pipe.

If it was super rusty, I would expect to pay at least that much!

Rob R.

wvumtnbkr wrote: I have had 02 sensors stuck on cars that I was NOT able to take off. One of them actually ripped out of the exhaust pipe and I had to reweld a new bung on the pipe. If it was super rusty, I would expect to pay at least that much! Rob R.

We get quite a few older MDX's that require a new cat. They rust to become one solid piece with the mani-cat. Actually, in these cases we're replacing the cat, and have to throw in a sensor or 2 because they have united to become one entity.

ebonyandivory wrote: Dads 2004 Camry 2.4L failed inspection for emissions for an O2 sensor at Midas. He shows me the bill to replace it: $82.41 just to scan it while our locals parts stores all do it FREE. Parts total (one o2 sensor) $205.49 Labor total $204.80 Shop supplies $26.27 Tax $12.84 Total Invoice for a stupid o2 sensor replacement: $449.40!!!! I can get an o2 sensor for under $30 and maybe if I'm slow, take a half-hour to replace it. Are they taking advantage of my dad? I have my opinion but I'd like to hear from you more knowledgable guys.

This is why I try to do as much myself as possible. Is it high? Probably, but Midas charged my sister in law nearly $1000 for a brake job (pads, rotors, rebuilt calipers(?), shoes) on her 93 Olds Cutlass after her regular shop (who oddly doesn't do brakes) said she needed new pads. Maybe with calipers, but she had the same parts replaced less than 5 years ago by Midas. I have personal issues with Midas.

Guys, this is the exact reason why most normal people buy new cars, or relativly young cars with a warranty if they car, it's also the reason the average age of vehicles in about 11 years. If this is an 04 model it has a high chance of having been sold in 03, so it's 11-12 years old right now, it's the average age of a car on the streets in this country. I don't know what, if any emissions or safety testing you have in your state, but here in Michigan 99% of people wouldn't have even tried to have this fixed on a car like that. They'd just drive until it became an actual issue then try to get it fixed.

Your dad want' ripped off, he did what, and was charged what 99.9% of the population do/are charged.

Streetwise guy said the O2 sensor is not an oxygen sensor.

Well, yes it is. It creates a voltage by measuring the oxygen content of the exhaust gases.

which in turn, does relate to the fuel mixture.

I know, small point.