Diesel Mazda6

Andrave have you considered an economy tune?

Hal wrote: Diesel anything has no interest to me untill the cost of diesel gets a lot closer to the cost of regular gas. Around here it is usually 60-80 cents a gallon more.

Don't count on diesel price going below gasoline anytime soon. From what I have read diesel is byproduct of gasoline refinement. Thanks to the ethanol subsidies and laws we don't produce as much gas as in the past. Less gas production means less diesel production. Supply and demand, diesel goes up.

GTwannaB wrote: Don't count on diesel price going below gasoline anytime soon. From what I have read diesel is byproduct of gasoline refinement. Thanks to the ethanol subsidies and laws we don't produce as much gas as in the past. Less gas production means less diesel production. Supply and demand, diesel goes up.

Yes and no. Diesel price in the US has more to do with the world commodities market than its production in the US. As diesel continues to gain popularity in Europe (where it's usually taxed less than gasoline), demand is high. So a lot of US-refined diesel gets shipped over there thus keeping the price high over here.

For me its still a time of year thing. Sometimes its as cheap or cheaper than gas

Diesel here (Ontario) goes up in the winter - when fuel oil is also used for heat. It's slightly more than gasoline in the winter, and usually slightly less than gas in the summer.

to say diesel is a byproduct of refining gasoline isn't necessarily true. Its more like refining petroleum produces a wide array of petroleum based products, including both gasoline and diesel...

One thing I have noticed is that diesel rarely moves and if so its in very slight increments, vs gasoline which jumps wildly, sometimes 30 or 40 cents in a month, up and down. I don't know if this is an effort to somewhat stabilize the cost of shipping and transporting goods, but when gas drops 20-30 cents a gallon and diesel doesn't move it kind of has you thinking the whole system is bullE36 M3.

Jaynen wrote: Andrave have you considered an economy tune?

bad for 6.0

Ian F wrote: A good number of VW diesel owners love diesels but only drive a VW because there's no other option. T

Guilty as charged. I love my 2000 TDI but it's a POS.

andrave wrote: Summary: while mpgs may indeed be better, the actual costs of diesel vs gas, the maintenance, and additional repair costs may not necessarily work out in your favor in the long run, particularly when added to the premium for the diesel powerplant!!!

Here is where many make the gas vs diesel comparison mistake. Everyone says the $2-3000 premium for buying a diesel car would buy a whole bunch of gas and not be worth it. However, this 2-3k is also recouped in resale (or somewhat close to it). Look at used VW TDIs. They sell for quite a bit more than their gas counterparts.

Enyar wrote:

Ian F wrote: A good number of VW diesel owners love diesels but only drive a VW because there's no other option. T

Guilty as charged. I love my 2000 TDI but it's a POS.

andrave wrote: Summary: while mpgs may indeed be better, the actual costs of diesel vs gas, the maintenance, and additional repair costs may not necessarily work out in your favor in the long run, particularly when added to the premium for the diesel powerplant!!!

Here is where many make the gas vs diesel comparison mistake. Everyone says the $2-3000 premium for buying a diesel car would buy a whole bunch of gas and not be worth it. However, this 2-3k is also recouped in resale (or somewhat close to it). Look at used VW TDIs. They sell for quite a bit more than their gas counterparts.

not just VWs but look a ford F series or dodge with an oil burner in it. Auto or not they hold their value better and pull a higher dollar on the re-sale market.

Before we were scared off by HPFP issues, that was sort of on the radar for the TDI thing; locally the market for them is so strong that the ideal actually seemed to be to buy-in, then resell and take a new one at the point that the remarkably shallow depreciation curve started to drop away...

It may be particular to Portland, and as such a jump in electric or other greenie-lust tech could spoil my little plan, but I'm crossing my fingers that the next Sportwagen (2014?) will bring with it an improved injection system, and that by 2015 it'll be proven reliable... Though I wish cars would stop swelling with every iteration...

My sister has people standing in line to buy her TDI beetle and that thing has been a piece of crap since the day it rolled off the line. If it was a gas car it would have been crushed years ago, but since it's diesel it's still worth multiple thousands of dollars. Weird.

HPFP?

Jaynen wrote: HPFP?

Sorry, I'm doing that thing where I turn into a broken record griping about the same thing again and again, then start shorthanding it.

There have apparently been issues with the High Pressure Fuel Pump on the Common Rail VW TDIs, (2009-on, IIRC).

Links:
TDI Club on the issue
TDI Club on the NHTSA investigation
HPFP on tdi-issues.com
NHTSA page

There are a few other threads at TDI club as well.

It sounds like a small number of cars are affected, and most of those are covered under warranty, but some are also being blamed on misfueling (and some probably are misfueling). It wouldn't have bugged me so much except that when the HPFP goes, it apparently takes everything downstream with it to the tune of $7k or so, and a number of cars have had the issue more than once.

fidelity101 wrote: Here is where many make the gas vs diesel comparison mistake. Everyone says the $2-3000 premium for buying a diesel car would buy a whole bunch of gas and not be worth it. However, this 2-3k is also recouped in resale (or somewhat close to it). Look at used VW TDIs. They sell for quite a bit more than their gas counterparts. not just VWs but look a ford F series or dodge with an oil burner in it. Auto or not they hold their value better and pull a higher dollar on the re-sale market.

Agreed on the resale. The initial price carries over to resale. So if you don't have any major diesel repairs, you won't be out anything. Except when it comes to a vehicle like mine. I can't get the 6k I would want for it, even though others sell for even MORE, because it is a 2wd. Everyone that stop to ask about it always put up the NWIFH will they spend that and they can get the same truck for less then 2k and it will have 4wd. I politely just close the door.

fidelity101 wrote:

Enyar wrote:

Ian F wrote: A good number of VW diesel owners love diesels but only drive a VW because there's no other option. T

Guilty as charged. I love my 2000 TDI but it's a POS.

andrave wrote: Summary: while mpgs may indeed be better, the actual costs of diesel vs gas, the maintenance, and additional repair costs may not necessarily work out in your favor in the long run, particularly when added to the premium for the diesel powerplant!!!

Here is where many make the gas vs diesel comparison mistake. Everyone says the $2-3000 premium for buying a diesel car would buy a whole bunch of gas and not be worth it. However, this 2-3k is also recouped in resale (or somewhat close to it). Look at used VW TDIs. They sell for quite a bit more than their gas counterparts.

not just VWs but look a ford F series or dodge with an oil burner in it. Auto or not they hold their value better and pull a higher dollar on the re-sale market.

Yeah, the problem is that, take the F series. The diesel is now almost a $9000 option... and doesn't add $9k back in on resale, especially if you keep it for 100k.

Resale value is why I bought my car new. When I was looking for a TDi back in 2002, I was looking at B4 Passat wagons. Cars with over 100K miles had asking prices of almost $10K. Buying a new Jetta wagon was easier (try geting aloan for a car with over 100K miles) and I had a better idea of what I was getting.

ransom wrote: A new TDI HPFP (or vastly improved warranty)

Im pretty sure they are different now, but there is nothing to say that they are fixed for good. VW majorly failed on handling the warranty claims, there have only been less than 150 failures, but instead of just fixing them they made excuses that it wasnt their fault but then paid to fix most of them once the owners complained enough. I bet it cost them way more in sales than it would have to just fix them all right away.

I would love a Skyactive 6 wagon! I would even happily take it with an auto, as long as its not a crappy one.

A CX5 wouldn't be bad either, but I truly prefer wagons to crossovers. I saw the comment back on the first page about crossovers out selling wagons, I think thats mostly because so few wagons are being offered, and the crossovers are heavily promoted, just like SUVs were until a few years ago.

Travis_K wrote: Im pretty sure they are different now, but there is nothing to say that they are fixed for good. VW majorly failed on handling the warranty claims, there have only been less than 150 failures, but instead of just fixing them they made excuses that it wasnt their fault but then paid to fix most of them once the owners complained enough. I bet it cost them way more in sales than it would have to just fix them all right away.

150 failures? Where is that figure from? I'd be EXTREMELY surprised if it was that low.

There seemed to be some indication of a diesel CX5 coming to Canada. With a manual. Not as pretty as the new Mazda6, but still a compelling option.

Nathan JansenvanDoorn wrote:

Travis_K wrote: Im pretty sure they are different now, but there is nothing to say that they are fixed for good. VW majorly failed on handling the warranty claims, there have only been less than 150 failures, but instead of just fixing them they made excuses that it wasnt their fault but then paid to fix most of them once the owners complained enough. I bet it cost them way more in sales than it would have to just fix them all right away.

150 failures? Where is that figure from? I'd be EXTREMELY surprised if it was that low.

IIRC, according to threads at TDI Club, there have been at least two detail revisions to the pumps, but they haven't solved the issue.

According to the NHTSA, there were 160 complaints two and a half years ago. That particular inquiry was into the 2009-2010 cars, though it sounds like there have been continued failures with 2011 and 2012 cars (again, TDI Club for the info, mostly), but since that NHTSA inquiry was into those specific years, the number hasn't been updated there.

In the face of production numbers, it is still a small percentage. It's just the scale of the problem should it happen and should VW deny the claim.

The logical answer is of course "If the risk's to high for you, don't buy one." It was, and I didn't. It's just aggravating to have such a unicorn in production (diesel manual wagon, good-looking and nice-driving), and have it fall outside my being able to rationalize it due to mismanagement of a known issue.

Now get off my lawn! Unless you've got the guys from Mazda with you. I want to talk to them about my diesel wagon issues...

Today I got a promotional newsletter from Mazda in the mail about the new diesel 6.

How do they know I want one of those?!

I would love to see them offer this in a few of their vehicles. I've never really been interested in a new car, but this one has my attention. A diesel 6 wagon, a diesel CX5 or CX9, a diesel 5...I bet all of these would sell! And I would be looking for a lightly used one in a few years!

mistanfo wrote: Looks like those of you going to the Rolex 24 will see them: News.

Sort of.

I spent over an hour talking with the Mazda folks today about this here at the Rolex.

The diesels are NOT yet available in the US in any models. The price has NOT been established. The EPA rating has NOT been established. Additionally, all the ratings formerly posted in this thread about hp, torque, etc. are the EUROPEAN spec car. US specs are yet unclear. So, forming an opinion on the value of the diesel Mazdas is a little premature, in my opinion.

Having said that, they have a heck of a product line in the gas burners. Looked hard at several- very impressive. Comfortable, excellent fit and finish, great ergonomics, nice styling.

The Skyactiv approach is quite interesting, and will not be fully available in the entire product line for several years, but is being rolled out in stages. The CX-5 is the first to get the full treatment (chassis, body, and engine), and the gas burner gets an impressive 35 mpg, with a price tag of $21K. Excellent for a clean nicely styled SUV crossover. It still isn't available in the diesel though.

There is a drop dead gorgeous custom CX-5 here (built for SEMA) that has a diesel on board (plus every other possible detail). No performance specs. No telling what the price tag would be if it were for sale.

No wagon here, but the 2013 Mazda 6 sedan is beautiful. Fully loaded $30K. No diesel here either.

The Mazda 3 is now rated at 40 mpg (gas, non Skyactiv).

As much as I like diesels and wagons, Mazda is going to have to hit a major home run on the specs to make the diesel versions of their product line better than the gas burners. With Skyactiv rolling out throughout the products, the performance is only going to get better over the next few years.

If the diesel exceeds 50 mpg and stays under $35K, it will be worth looking at. I don't think it is gonna happen.

One more thing...

The Mazda folks confirmed that their entire product line will be available with diesels, 6 spd manuals, and Skyactiv.

...eventually.