Diesel SUV's

Let's talk about 'em. From the last 10 years the contenders are:

Toureg V10 TDI (309hp 553lbft torque)

Toureg V6 TDI (225hp 410 tq)

BMW X35D (260hp 425)

Mercedes ML350 Bluetech (225/410)

Grand Cherokee 3.0 (225/410 mercedes version)

Grand Cherokee 3.0 (240/420 new VM version)

I left out the Porsche and Audi's because I don't think they are near my $30k cap.

Reason I'm asking, is I'd like to get 20+ combined, be able to put my family in it for day to day use in and around metro areas, and be able to tow an airstream 19 footer. I know all of these have reliability concerns- but are they repairable by the home mechanic? I'm looking to buy in the next couple years, but want to start the light searching now.

Excursion can also have a diesel but idk if its the 7.3 or the "wonderful" 6.0

The Excursion was my first thought as well, but I'm not sure that it will meet either the mileage or city navigability requirements.

Liberty. Suburban(they can work in a city) Man, limited in the states it seems. I do know to avoid that v10. The mercedes stuff needs lots of special tools, but then again most diesels do. Hvnt worked on a bmw diesel yet. Why an suv and not a truck?

No direct experience myself, but a buddy of mine sold his CRD Liberty about a year ago and was very glad to see it go. He did all his own maintenance and hated working on it. There are few people's opinion I trust more. He also owned a 2004 Jetta TDI from new that he put about 250k on (including using it as a test bed when he brewed his own biodiesel) before passing it onto his son.

Excursion. Cheaper than most of your candidates and they'l run forever.

You'll need to do some basic mods if you tow heavy or much. Rear sway bar, shocks, tune.

I DD mine in city traffic and it's no problem at all to park, etc. Even fits in most parking garages.

PS you want the 7.3, or a late 6.0. Avoid the 2003-early 04 6.0 unless you want a headache.

Liberty diesel!

Vm motori? With Chrysler integration? No thanks.

Vm motori made a bunch of inboard out boards that were branded as cummins marine diesel. What steaming piles of junk.

A diesel liberty is the correct form factor with all the execution of a gaggle of chimpanzee's.

Excursion is way too big for us. We're coming from a wrx wagon. Truth is, I'd love the new grand Cherokee diesel, but I think we're looking at $40k+. I wouldn't mind a truck, but were looking at mostly day to day with occasional tows- a 2500 diesel truck with 4 doors is too much.

Escape hybrid? Don't know what the towing capacity is. This is going to quickly go into suggesting petrol engines, heck I would even suggest a sante fe with a 2.7. Wife gets 19 city 25 highway, and can tow 3000lbs. Lots of legroom in the back as well. I can get 21 city tho:-P Just not many good options on diesels.

Shoulda clarified- need to tow around 4500 lbs over all sorts of hills and dales.

A new gas v6 GC or Ram would probably do it, but I like the diesel idea.

One of the middle of the new millennium GC's then IMO. Great MPG, decently comfy, relatively reliable, and can tow up to 7000lbs.

A diesel liberty can do the things you require, but they (IMO) have less usable interior space than a Subie wagon.

Liberty diesel gets the best mpg, if you remove some of the smog stuff you can help the motor a lot either cheaply or spend a couple hundred bucks on the environmentally friendly way. I want to say Lostjeeps is the place to go and has a great thread. With those changes and a tune you can see 30+ highway.

The CRD GC will get mid 20s or so best and actually has less cargo space than the libery (more floor space but the hatch angle isn't square like the liberty. However its a nicer vehicle for sure. I've been eyeing them both since wife wants an SUV and I am a diesel lover

Liberty CRD's aren't bad if you can turn a wrench yourself. Update the crap that chrysler did when they implemented it and they are fine..... I really like mine. Add a cummins lift pump in the liberty tank (it bolts in) as they didn't come with one and I haven't had problems with mine.

[URL=http://s6.photobucket.com/user/airwerks/media/liberty.jpg.html][/URL]

Looks nice are those rubicon wheels?

Nope, OEM optional wheels.

I know you're only looking at diesels, but a last-generation 4Runner (ours is an '08) gets 20mpg combined without an issue. Around 17 in strictly city driving, and mid-20s loaded up for a week at the beatch (without a trailer). And can to 5000-6500lbs depending on V6 or V8 (mileage is pretty similar, oddly). Not sure how much your trailer weights, but will the added cost of a diesel really pay off for you?

I guess that's a question we'll have to answer. Didn't think the 4runners did that well.

So the toureg sucks in v10 and v6 guise? I assume it has all the VAG problems? The X5 is talking to me for some reason, although I think in the "normal" size SUV range, the GC is probably the cheapest/easiest to keep running well.

X5 BMW 35d, is what i'm lookin for,2010 and up, comes with all the bells and whistles, Twin turbo, guys i talk to says it pulls alike train,TORQUE lots of it.

add a free-flow exhaust, cold air inlet, and a ECU upgrade, good for 50-60 hp, and 75-80ft.lbs.

mpg on hiway close to 30mpg,unloaded, faster you go the better the mpg. its a diesel thing!

course if money no object ,an Audi Q7 D ,V12 diesel right from the Audi R10 race car ,would be over the top for bragging rights, ECU mod ,150mph, 500hp, 700ft.lbs.. YUP; that would get the job done. MPG ,not to good, but if you could afford it ,it wouldnt matter.

hmm can you point me to someplace I can corroborate that X5 D getting 30 highway Ah I see them as early as 2009 and getting 26 highway on epa site

Typical diesels don't really gain much at all from exhaust except lower EGR, and air doesnt mean power on a diesel either pretty much fuel only. So tune, and possibly injectors would be all it would need. You might have better luck disabling the EGR electronically or something mpg wise

irish44j wrote: I know you're only looking at diesels, but a last-generation 4Runner (ours is an '08) gets 20mpg combined without an issue. Around 17 in strictly city driving, and mid-20s loaded up for a week at the beatch (without a trailer). And can to 5000-6500lbs depending on V6 or V8 (mileage is pretty similar, oddly). Not sure how much your trailer weights, but will the added cost of a diesel really pay off for you?

I'll second this notion. My mom drives one; according to the computer she averages 16-18 MPG, 95% in town. When I had it for a week, I averaged 20. I think that we've seen 26MPG on the highway when we had a strong tailwind; average highway is probably about 23-24. My brother will eventually get that one, which I'm sorry about. Luckily my girlfriends dad has one as well that I hope to get when he's ready to sell.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/4runner

People who track their mileage (right off the bat, people who track their mpg are more likely to be people that drive appropriately to get better mpg) are AVERAGING 18usmpg in their 4runners, across city and highway driving. The computers are hopelessly optimistic as well.

I've never met a more useless vehicle in my life (the 4runner). Horrible mpg, horrible towing, there are so many more options available. My 2 cents.

As a status symbol/parking lot crawler they are great. Nothing inherently wrong with them for daily driving besides abysmal mpg.

HiTempguy wrote: http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/4runner People who track their mileage (right off the bat, people who track their mpg are more likely to be people that drive appropriately to get better mpg) are AVERAGING 18usmpg in their 4runners, across city and highway driving. The computers are hopelessly optimistic as well. I've never met a more useless vehicle in my life (the 4runner). Horrible mpg, horrible towing, there are so many more options available. My 2 cents. As a status symbol/parking lot crawler they are great. Nothing inherently wrong with them for daily driving besides abysmal mpg.

I could see that on the computer thing. I've never actually calculated the mileage.

As for more useless vehicle, seriously? Very comfortable, fits 5 large people, I don't know what you're talking about with the towing as in my experience it tows wonderfully, and from what I hear, they are phenomenal off road as well. To be clear, I'm talking about an 02-09 models.

i'm seeing the older gas Porsche Cayenne in the teens and twenties $ on craigslist.

Another good option for a gas vehicle is the Ford Expedition. Especially the 2nd gen 2003+. At least it will be more reliable than any of the German SUVs.... Put the savings toward your retirement, the kid's college fund or more weekends traveling. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Expedition

I've been seriously frustrated by my VW, Audi and BMW ownership experiences. The frequency and cost of repairs and need for special tools for many repairs is annoying. So is dealing with mechanics who think it is absolutely OK to bill thou$ands for basic repairs at an overinflated hourly rate. I'd rather you not give me coffee and a cushy waiting room with wifi and just fix the damn car at a reasonable hourly rate and overall cost... And don't get me started on 'lifetime' fluids for trannys and diffs and such...

My experience with Mercedes repairs is that the repairs have cost less, easier to fix and don't break down as often as the VW or Audi or BMW.

If it were my money, time and sanity, I'd probably consider the Jeep and Mercedes if diesel is a must. I'd buy the Ford Expedition if gas is an option.

I understand the desire for the diesel. The torque is nice but if you are only towing 5-6k lbs, it might not matter too much. I have a diesel Excursion. Nice vehicle but big and heavy and won't get you 20s MPG unless you can't do math. I wouldn't expect any other SUV to hit 20s in mixed driving unless the owners are math challenged. I wouldn't want to DD my Ex in metro areas as parking is a pain compared to the smaller SUVs.

Hope that helps.

Since I hate driving trucks and SUVs, I'd probably get 2 vehicles. One for your daily needs that drives nice, looks nice, gets good MPG etc. Another for towing - my vote there would be a Ford F150 crew cab (4 door) or the previously mentioned Expedition.