DIY Custom Turbo Install

93 gsx turbo wrote: I think before I went through all that effort I would get a turbo that is slightly less paperweight.

Explain further? What unit do you think I am using? (it is not a 13G) I do have one of those but it is to small.

I went with this unit due to the size / capacity. I did size this unit to the motor (ran the calks and graphed it etc) and found it to be a very good match to the 2.5L in this car. (it came from a 2.3). Having both the bov and the wastegate all included in the unit really helps with cost containment and greatly simplifies plumbing (think 2011 challenger potential) I am hoping to put the whole package (including engine management) together for less than $700 twards a challenge budget.

I am also working with 9.5 / one compression so I really can not get crazy. I may be able to get 10PSI but that will be with a great tune. Reality is 6-7 lbs. No more. Ohya if I want bigger I can go to a 16 or even an 18G I can also add a manual control to the wastegate to add more PSI however this would require more motor work than is not really cost effective at a minimum I would have to get 951 pistons or meth/water injection or both. Considering the cost of a complete 951 this is just not a good option. I am not looking to build a 400HP monster. I am not looking to build a 951. I am just trying to build a much improved 944/924s. I am looking to get to the 225hp range that has boost coming in between 1000-1500 with full boost at 2000rpm running up to 5500. This unit does this. Virtually no lag and lots of low end grunt will make this a really fun driver. I am just adding what I think is missing from the NA 944's.

I think the 15G is a good choice for what you want. I'm going to be using a smaller 13c on the Milano.

flip the OE headers and put the turbo above the distributor, with a bitchin asymetrical hoodscoop!

The exhaust side is the suck, the built in blowoff/recirc valve is the suck, and so on.

I guess if it was me, I would be using DSM parts because I have a glut of them. But even still, a good used 1G DSM blowoff valve with pipe/flange is like $25 and they hold mega boost and can be placed anywhere. Also they make the turbo smaller and easier to package.

The stock 1G DSM 14B is a great turbo, good enough to get a heavily modified 2 liter DSM deep into the 10s (10.6), and you can pick them up for $50-100 in great shape.

The packaging of the DSM turbos is a little better than what you have there. The turbine inlet flange is smaller and square. The outlet flange, while fairly large, is very common and allows GREAT flow from the turbine wheel and wastegate flange. The same can not be said for the Volvo unit where it all rams into a 2.5" or so opening. The inlet side is similar to the Volvo turbo, but because the bypass valve is not integral, it is much smaller.

The biggest advantage to using DSM turbos is that there are many more potent turbos available in the same form factor. 16Gs both big and small, 18G, and 20G "killers" are all the same form factor. You can upgrade for cheap down the road, should you so chose. And your DSM 14B is still worth what you paid for it to someone else.

Clocking the DSM turbo is easy. There is a V band between the exhaust housing and the center section. Remove the V band, separate the components, remove the locator pin, and you can clock it any direction you chose. The compressor side is the same way. Remove a snap ring, remove a locator pin, and you can rotate the compressor side any direction you want.

Its just a better platform with more flexibility, adaptability, and upgradability, for the same price. But hey, its your project.

Clocking the Volvo turbo is exactly the same as a DSM turbo.

The cold side will flow more than the cold side of your 14b. But it doesn't matter. He already has a 15g, which will be fine in his application.

Also, while the CBV and integrated wastegate might not be the best for all out performance, they do make things easier on him. He doesn't need to purchase a BOV or build a waste gate port into his manifold.

I'm glad you think highly of the DSM turbos and you have alot of DSM parts laying around. But just because the DSM turbo is best for your application, ut doesn't mean he should get rid of his stuff and buy DSM stuff.

Ok want to sell me a turbo, a wastegate, and a BOV for say.. . . $-125 shipped?. .. . I just dont think you can. I think the real number for all these is closer to 250-300 shipped to my door.

I do agree about the packaging. Having the BOV and the WG all intrical to the unit does make the unit bigger. But this is why I am mocking it up before I do any fabrication. The plus side is that these units are cheep and upgradable and the simplification of the plumbing is a huge plus.

I think by your description what you are doing (getting in to the 10's on a 2.0l) then yes the items you are listing are the way to go. I am not looking for that kind of performance. My motor just can not take it.

However if you are willing to "donate to the cause" I am never one to say no to a "good deal" lol

93 gsx turbo said: The exhaust side is the suck, the built in blow off/recirc valve is the suck, and so on.

You have not answered my question. Why do they suck? Or should I say "is the suck" I need tech / proof / comparisons. I am still in the prototype stage so please show me. Yes I already own the 15g but I am not locked into it. In fact I was originally looking at the KKK's or the K26 but again packaging all the other things together makes the 15g really hard to pass up.

I am looking at a very fast spool with the boost coming in down low in the rpms running up to 5500 or so and a max of 9-10PSI with a real goal of 6-7 psi. All this is on a 2.5L motor. I am not building a high rpm high boost high hp setup. If you got something that can do this in a more compact package that keeps the cost reasonable I am very interested!!! The same applies to my TD04's I can sell them go a different direction.

AngryCorvair wrote: flip the OE headers and put the turbo above the distributor, with a bitchin asymetrical hoodscoop!

He he he I actually really like this! The way the motor is angled the turbo would end up almost over the passenger side fender. LOL

This kind of eliminates any kind of the stealth effect I was hoping for.

Hay wait lets just do this!!!!

Sorry could not resist!

Ohya it's the hood pins that really make it the schnitz!!!!

What I am getting at, Dean, is that if you look at the exhaust side, you can see that it s not a direct flow from the turbine outlet to the exhaust side. Its restricted, you cant see the whole wheel, and you are limited to what you can push through the opening. The DSM stock turbos are much more open. I dont need numbers to back it up, just years of experience.

The DSM turbo still has an integral wastegate, but its packaged better. And yes, if I had a good 14B on the shelf, I would gladly sell it with a 1G DSM Blowoff valve and pipe with flange for $125 shipped, but I dont, so I cant. But you can find your own over on www.dsmtrader.com or by joining one of your many excellent local DSM forums that can be found over at www.dsm.org. If you were in Wisconsin or northern Illinois, I would suggest www.widsm.org, the premier Midwestern DSM board.

93 gsx turbo wrote: What I am getting at, Dean, is that if you look at the exhaust side, you can see that it s not a direct flow from the turbine outlet to the exhaust side. Its restricted, you cant see the whole wheel, and you are limited to what you can push through the opening. The DSM stock turbos are much more open. I dont need numbers to back it up, just years of experience. The DSM turbo still has an integral wastegate, but its packaged better. And yes, if I had a good 14B on the shelf, I would gladly sell it with a 1G DSM Blow Off valve and pipe with flange for $125 shipped, but I dont, so I cant. But you can find your own over on www.dsmtrader.com or by joining one of your many excellent local DSM forums that can be found over at www.dsm.org. If you were in Wisconsin or northern Illinois, I would suggest www.widsm.org, the premier Midwestern DSM board.

Now that is good info. Does anyone know if the 13g hot side will swap with the 15g hot side? I guess I can just try it. The 13g seems to have a much less restricted casting than the 15g. I will post photos when I get home. I also have found a source for weld bent pipe so the manifold work will start soon.

Can anyone here make up flanges for headers? I have cad drawings but basically I need four 1/4" flanges that have stud 1/4" +/- holes at 3" OC with a 1.9" hole in the center. If some one can make these up for reasonable $$$ I would considder it. Regular mild steel is all I want.

Can anyone make 4 of these at a challenge friendly price?

Is that a TD04H or TD05H turbo? That will determine what exhaust side you can swap.

Also, that flange looks suspiciously similar to a GReddy blow off valve flange. Might want to check out the dimensions on one.

The 15G is a TD04H

Both are TD04's one is a 13T and 15G

And the answer is? The hot sides use the same impeller thus the hot side housings are interchangeable. I just took them apart and measured them and and tried the two hot sides on each other and then put compressed air though them. Everything seemed to work perfectly. So I would say that yes they are interchangeable.

There are however significant differences between the two housings with respect to how the down pipe bolts up as well as there seems to be a difference in the inlet in to the impeller and the exposure of the wastegate is also different. I got photos and will post them up.

Here is the two hot sides side by side. The 15G is on the left and the 13T is on the right

Generally speaking, any TD04H turbo will get ghetto stomped by a TD05H turbo at the top end. The architecture does not flow enough for serious performance. DSMs only came with one TD04H turbo, and that was the choked down 90-94 automatic equipped cars.

Based on the picture above, the 13T would be a better choice for performance, but its mighty tough to base a critical decision on one picture. Whats the rest of the turbo like? Did they just fit a larger exhaust housing to make it more or less laggy or tuned better to a particular application.

The pic below shows the typical Mitsubishi flanged exhaust side. These are T25s and T28s, but the flange and wheel sizing is similar to a TD05H-14B or TD05H-16G. Flanges are identical, and wheles are damn close. As you can see, it clearly flows better.

93gsxturbo,

Looking at the photos of the two you posted I assume that it really is critical how the housing that boots to the turbo is configured. Those two as they sit have no obstruction but add an off set flange and problems arise. that is the biggest difference between the 13 and the 15. The bigger differences are on the cold side. I have not opened that side up yet. I am probably going to use the 15 cold side with the 13 center section and hot side as it seems to bee in better shape (less play in the shaft). I really should just rebuild this one or get another fresh one once I get this thing sorted and the mock-up all set and the unit actually running.