Band the bottoms of the legs and anchor them to the floor, fasten the top to the wall and I'd use it for light cars. That's assuming it was assembled with screws instead of nails, the floor joists are blocked properly and hanging in joist hangers, and 3/4 decking was used. That car doesn't weigh much more than a king size waterbed and some pretty crappy houses hold them up without problem.
nimblemotorsports said:Robbie said:I mean, we can't really see what is used for beams (we can see they are 2x6, but we don't know spacing, or how many there are. We also don't know if there is additional bracing between the "joists".
Also, if it is securely anchored to the walls and the walls are strong enough that gives a heck of a lot of triangulation.
I haven't run the calcs on this structure, but neither has anyone responding about how unsafe it is.
All I'm saying is we really don't have enough info to tell. A refrigerator has gigantic point loads because of the tiny wheels, but that doesn't mean the entire floor is engineered for 1000 lbs per square inch.
You mean a total lack of information would stop anyone from making opinions about the certain death of my nephews?
I went to the shop today and the car is still up there.. Something must have gone wrong. is there still time to win the Darwin Challenge? lol
Plenty of time to win.
My comment on nephews being at risk was meant to put the thought in your head that even if you are smart enough not to go under it, there will come a time when other people could put themselves at risk here....especially kids who won't give a second thought to it. Shrug that thought off if you want. Given the photo shown, there's level of risk displayed which is significantly higher than most people's comfort level. Many have offered easy solutions to mitigate that risk to an extent, but it seems to be falling on deaf ears. It's true, we can't see exactly how this thing is built. However, what we can see, is fairly telling of what we cant. I honestly hope it will safely support the Tercel as long as you want it to, and you come here years from now to say "told you it was fine!"
Apis Mellifera said:Pallet racks are the way to go. I did this, though with modular steel shelving that locks and bolts together.
It's long term storage in a back corner for a sub 750 pound Sprite. There's an MGA below it now that also doesn't move. There's no traffic near this deadfall.
I don't have a problem with the OP's idea. The execution is a little marginal. What's a Tercel weigh?
How did you get that up there?
And is that a wasp nest on the back wall? lol
Toyman01 said:Band the bottoms of the legs and anchor them to the floor, fasten the top to the wall and I'd use it for light cars. That's assuming it was assembled with screws instead of nails, the floor joists are blocked properly and hanging in joist hangers, and 3/4 decking was used. That car doesn't weigh much more than a king size waterbed and some pretty crappy houses hold them up without problem.
Lag bolts instead of screws...
yupididit said:How did you get that up there?
And is that a wasp nest on the back wall? lol
Shop crane/engine hoist. It's just a shell. Yes, big paper wasp nest. Unoccupied. A 1:1 Han Solo frozen in carbonite can be seen adjacent to the wasp nest.
Please, I don't want to see you die. At least do something about this, any side to side wiggle could be catastrophic.
Actually, the County will make me take this down or remove the cars, I have no doubt. It wouldn't matter if it was solid steel or concrete.
They inspect every year if you have a business license, which I will have now.
The second story I built in my old shop (still standing 5 years now) was not a business.
By the time that occurs I hope to shrink my car collection and/or move into a bigger space.
The Tercel has no engine or transmission...come take this car off my hands (platform)...For the Children!
So I've been watching this thread. Not the way I'd build it, and I wouldn't let my kids build a fort underneath it, but there is a 99% chance that nimblemotorsports will get away with it fine. I think the largest hazard is in having other people look at it and try to emulate it. An engineless Tercel weighs less than a bunch of other things that you could put up there. It probably weighs less than 4 guys on a couch.
I fully admit that I checked your location when you mentioned that it was available. Tercel hatches are neat.
looking at your handiwork and what you are trying to achieve. Short of going with steel, I think the best way you could improve that without making it impossible to store a car beneath it would be to go up. The "legs" that support the weight should extend upwards above the height of your tercel and then get triangulated into a truss assembly that will keep the whole thing from collapsing at the "hinge" that was pointed out earlier. You basically want to box everything in, and if you can't do it below, you need to do it above.
Patrick said:Please, I don't want to see you die. At least do something about this, any side to side wiggle could be catastrophic.
He may already be unhinged
mad_machine said:looking at your handiwork and what you are trying to achieve. Short of going with steel, I think the best way you could improve that without making it impossible to store a car beneath it would be to go up. The "legs" that support the weight should extend upwards above the height of your tercel and then get triangulated into a truss assembly that will keep the whole thing from collapsing at the "hinge" that was pointed out earlier. You basically want to box everything in, and if you can't do it below, you need to do it above.
I had not thought of going up, thanks for that idea! but doesn't that also block the cars on top?
The plan is to attach shelves/racking to it on the left, to get a permanent reinforced left wall. These racks are still in my old shop, and as they are also used as a wall between the shop next door, so they will be last to be removed from that shop. I still have the corvair and midget to move out of there, plus take down the 2nd story and two big workbenches, and engines and suspensions, ev batteries, tools, and and oh my do I have lots of stuff.
I am taking the batteries and motor/trans out of the IndyOne now before it goes up there, and the front bodywork, as the overhang is too much to handle the ramp angle.
And being three wheels a two wheel ramp is not gonna work! lol
This car has not seen daylight in years, it just gets me excited about it seeing it again!
I'm in for the construction tips.
I've often thought of building a double decker storage thingy for my motorcycles to free up valuable garage space. I would build it kind of like a four post lift. And if it had a plate on the bottom for the lower motorcycle to sit on I could have the whole thing supported on some heavy-duty casters and move it around at will.
In reply to nimblemotorsports :
Construction professional here.
First off, there is no reason a car can't be supported with wood. Yes, some people are being dramatic.
Having said that, you haven't shared enough details to say whether this thing is adequate or not. Some of your details (like the stacked 4x4's) are sketchy. (Though not necessarily awful-depends on things like how many fasteners, etc). The ramps are not good, but you figured that out with the come-along.
There are 3 things I recommend that could be completed in less than an hour, and would make it reasonably adequate:
1- Attach it to the walls with significant fasteners. Not nails or screws. 3/8" lag bolts embedded into lead shields (or equal). 4 each side.
2- Attach the legs on the left side to the floor. A 2x4 continuous base screwed to the legs, bolted to the floor with expanding wedge anchors.
3- As others have noted, you need triangulation. The easiest way to do this and maintain the open area under is with airplane cable. Add 4 eye bolts at the top and bottom of both legs, and run the cable in a big "X". Attach cable to the eye bolts with threaded links, so you can remove it easily temporarily when moving a car under.
Simple. And no one will die.
Good luck!!
BTW...
I build in earthquake zones. What I just described would most likely be approved by the building inspectors I work with.
Hard to tell from the photos. Are the legs UNDER the platform or do they bypass?
I'm a fan of posts (say 4x4) being totally underneath and then another member (say a 2x6) alongside the post to overlap both. Not a fan of the platform rim beam being nailed or screwed into the side of a leg.
I built a garage storage rack out of pvc pipe, so I'm not qualified to comment on this. It is, however fastened to the wall, partially reinforced with steel pipe, and is only used to store empty coolers, pool floats etc.
If we do a some simple math, a 12x16 platform is 192sf. If you put two 1500lb cars on it, that is 3000lbs. 3000lbs/192sf = 15.6psf.
If we google floor joist load tables, a 2x8 on 16 inch centers can span 12ft, floor live loads are 30-40psf.
Cars don't care about floors being flat like people do. The platform is made from 2x8 on 12 inch centers.
There is a 2x6 that doubles the front 2x8, which threw some people off. The ramps are 2x6 with blocking and 2x4 reinforcements.
The platform is not an issue. Getting a car up there is where trouble lies. If you had a forklift it could just be set down on it.
But I am using ramps, which puts a horizontal load on the platform, which it is not "spec'd" for.
The pic of the 4500lb Explorer trying to drive up 45-degree ramps is total Troll material. That would be disaster!
I use a winch to PULL the car up the ramp, so instead of pushing on one side, the loads are like squeezing the platform.
Once the front wheels are on the platform, then I raise the rear of the ramps so the angle is not extreme.
The ramps rest on a 1.5inch tube so they can rotate.
And notice I use a wireless remote on the winch so I am not in danger of impending collapse..
The danger is the winch mount gives way and goes flying towards the car and then the car rolls back off the ramp,
but once the front wheels are on the platform less danger, but still dangerous.
Small problem with the calculations. That load is not spread out.
It's more like 8 point load (4 wheels x 2 cars). Even if assuming the loads are each 1 sq ft, that's 3k pounds on 8 sq ft.
If the structure is stiff enough and the loads go right to structural members, that might be okay.
However, that doesn't take into consideration any side loads.
The side loads are the problem. Not the strictly vertical loads.
In reply to wvumtnbkr :
Yes, the lateral (side) loads are the problem.
Your math regarding point loads sounds accurate, but that’s not how floor loads are calculated per span tables. It’s more like an average... the span tables assume concentrated loads in some spaces (like file cabinets), and vacant space in others (like hallways).
However, your point is well taken. If, for example, the wheel contact patch is centered between the floor joists, then the question becomes how far can OSB span. And over time, that can change. For example, humidity in the air can be absorbed into the OSB. If the material is already under load, the OSB can fail prematurely without much warning.
The platform will hold. Getting the car up there is the problem. The lateral load is hard to calculate. And potential future lateral loads (like someone bumping the leg with a car, or a minor tremor, or moisture deterioration) are unpredictable. But cable X bracing would solve all of those.
Nimble: interesting design on the pivoting ramps!
In reply to nimblemotorsports :
There is a different question the has not been asked...
Which way do the floor joists run?
If they run from front to back, then you missed something. Your floor joists are fine (as you calculated), but the front edge of your platform is not a floor joist. It’s a beam. The other floor joists are hanging on it.
If that’s the case, and you have a BEAM supporting floorjoists built from a 2x8 plus a 2x6 spanning 16’, then your beam is seriously over spanned.
In reply to SVreX :
Thanks for the lesson. I am a mechanical engineer, not structural.
When structural items are discussed, I always defer to contractors. Builders know how to-do things correctly with minimal investment (time, money, materials)
Thanks!
In reply to wvumtnbkr :
I WISH I was an engineer!!
If we did the math per SF like you, we’d have to outlaw women in high heels... if you do the math in lbs per square inch, you’ll find they outweigh an elephant!!
In reply to SVreX :
I'm pretty sure if we go around telling women that when in high heels they have higher contact pressure than an elephant we will no longer have women in high heels.
In reply to nocones :
I didn’t say to EVER say that to a woman!
Im just saying don’t always trust math- you might not ever get laid again!!
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