Do I have to talk to Hector about Spoon engines? (LM: EM1)

I've been looking for something to replace the LX470 with as that truck basically failed all of its reasons for purchasing it, especially the part where it was supposed to be a replacement for my wife's Range Rover.

The minimum viable product would need to be able to seat four, handle a bigger suitcase than the ND, be reasonably cheap to run and not need too much specialised knowledge or parts.

After typing in various combinations of "Mustang GT", "Civic SI", "Veloster N", maybe even the odd "BMW M3" into Farcebook Marketplace and discounting 99% of the cars as "1 careful owner, followed by 21 careless owners with no budget and a taste in questionable mods" vehicles, I did come across an EM1 that holds some promise. Allegedly two owners, current owner had it for > 10 years. Of course it's modded, but the mods seem almost reasonable and period correct and it's got SCCA stickers instead of the type of scene stickers that herald mods of the, err, more questionable sort. Yeah, yeah, respect all builds.

Main mods are suspension (Koni + Ground Control), header + exhaust and of course intake. Aka standard 90s Honda fare.

I know GRM did a buyers guide for one of these years back, but it was quite a while ago. Other than crispy brown used-to-be-metal and general mechanical condition, what else do I need to look for on one of these? Where do I find Hector and do I need to check with him on the engines?

Totally loved our 2000 Civic Si. Biggest concern now would be rust and brittle plastics.

Biggest issue really is rust in the rear fender wells/quarter panels.

Sometimes the old B-series motors will burn a bit of oil due to needing new seals. 
 

Overall, they're pretty reliable, assuming teenage modding abuse has been kept to a minimum- and even then, they'll tolerate quite a bit. 
 

How tall are you? I'm 6'2" and have a tough time comfortably fitting into 90's Honda's that came with a moonroof- headroom is tight. Out of all my old FWD wishbone Honda's, my favorite was easily my gutless EK hatch with a few OEM and OEM+ mods. Part of that was just the abundance of headroom.

These days, B-series parts are getting scarce and expensive. The days of dime-a-dozen B16/B18's is long gone. Look up how much they're going for on eBay. 
 

Also, one thing that might scare me away from buying one is the crowd. Yes, it really is that bad. Buying and selling old Honda parts and cars is a nightmare. I've owned 40 cars in my life- the absolute worst experiences, by far, were selling old Honda's or the parts I removed from them. I would rather pull my teeth out, one by one, with a set of vice grips than have to do that again. 
 

Fun cars, but I wouldn't want to have to sell another one. It really is that bad. If you like it, plan on keeping it a while.

Is theft still as much a problem as it was years ago?

BoxheadTim said:

Is theft still as much a problem as it was years ago?

Kind of. Crime statistics would suggest they're not as commonly stolen as they once were, but in my estimation that has more to do with more of them being in a junkyard these days and less of them being on the road. 
 

I installed kill switches in my last couple old Honda's and also used a club or removable steering wheel as deterrents. If I went to an out of town track event overnight, I also used to put a boot on the car(s) to make it tougher to steal them in the parking lot of the hotel I was staying in. 
 

With how scarce parts are becoming for them these days, they're essentially a rolling treasure trove for a car thief. 
 

If you're looking for a car that's less likely to be stolen, the 8th Gen Si's have K20's and immobilizers for similar (less?) money. 

8th gen Civic Si fits 4 adults decently. At a touch under 6ft tall I can sit behind myself in my 07 Si sedan. A non sunroof hatchback EM1 probably has more headroom.

Extra data point - new Mazda 3 sedan has less backseat room than my Civic.

I'm now at 255K miles in the Integra GSR sedan I bought in 2020. Same idea. Really it's been really good considering the age.

It's got the typical VTEC oil burn because I like to rev it out.

As far as theft, there has been 2 break ins on the car. Really easy to wedge the window out. So yeah it's still an issue.

I would go 8th gen first just because of the chance of getting a good one is rare these days. 

clutchsmoke said:

8th gen Civic Si fits 4 adults decently. At a touch under 6ft tall I can sit behind myself in my 07 Si sedan. A non sunroof hatchback EM1 probably has more headroom.

Extra data point - new Mazda 3 sedan has less backseat room than my Civic.

It's all true. 
 

My EK hatch (no sunroofs in the USDM 1996-2000 EK hatches) had a ton of headroom and a surprisingly useful back seat and trunk. You lose a few inches worth of headroom with the coupes from that era- namely the EM1 Si, the EX Civic coupe (with sunroof) and the DC2 Integra coupe (almost all of them had sunroofs except for the base RS and the Type R). Ironically, the hatches are both substantially lighter while also having more usable interior space. 
 

I currently have a 2021 Mazda 3 Turbo- the back seat is pretty cramped. It's been a while, but I felt like my 2300 lbs (essentially 1000 lbs lighter) EK had a bigger back seat vs my Mazda. 
 

I don't regret selling my Integra GS-R or my CRX Si, but I occasionally browse FB marketplace for another EK hatch, that I really don't need. 
 

EDIT: I just browsed FB marketplace and wouldn't you know it, someone is selling my old EK: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/645496937901581/?ref=search

^^^I put a lot of work into that old E36 M3box (almost everything listed in the sellers ad is something I did). I have to remind myself: you don't need another old project, you don't need another old project.... dammit, I shouldn't have looked! 

Replacing an LX470 with an old civic seems like a weird choice to me.  They don't do the same things, at all.  A large SUV vs a small, old japanese car...

What's wrong with the LX470 that it couldn't replace the rover?

In reply to docwyte :

My wife really dislikes driving it.

In reply to docwyte :

Oh, and the fact that it's developing what awfully sounds like an engine knock when cold doesn't help.

Not to mention that it's been about as reliable if not less than my Toyobaru. I really know how to pick 'em.

In reply to BoxheadTim :

And she's going to like driving an old Civic more?  After a Range Rover and an LX470?  Ummm....

Out of everyone on the board, you truly do have a reverse Midas touch with used cars. As much as it's painful to do and pay for, I'd buy something under warranty for your wife.  Let her pick it, if she's the primary driver...

In reply to docwyte :

She's happy with her Jeep LJ and doesn't want to drive anything else other than it and the 997. At some point she did want a new Bronco but after reading about all the issues with those, she wants to stick with what she knows and likes. We both seem to have reached "get off my lawn" age when it comes to vehicles.

I'm the only one these days driving the LX, and given that I started traveling for work again I just need something that I like driving for the round trip and that can hold the bags I can't stuff in the ND. Oh, and maybe get me there and back...

If this role does turn into something a little more permanent (new initiate at work, so I'll wait a bit to see if people change their minds) I'll probably look at a lease or similar for something with a warranty like I did with the Giulia. But that I'm going to sit out for at least another 6-9 months.

And yes, I seem to have a bad case of inverse Midas when it comes to anything with a combustion engine. It's a finely honed sklll , especially when combined with my somewhat Germanic Engineering attitude[1] of "zis shtuff should just work as designed".

[1] No, not the overcomplicated one. I leave those solutions for work.

In reply to BoxheadTim :

I think your rotary powered Maxton Rollerskate was? Is? Your most reliable car. 

In reply to clutchsmoke :

Probably the Maxton, followed by the 997 and then the X1/9 or ND.

Are you saying what I need is another rotary in my life?

Oh, and the T120 Bonnie also makes the list. That one oddly enough just works.

Some various and sundry reviews here:

https://www.youtube.com/@TheCarCareNut/videos

roninsoldier83 said:

 

Also, one thing that might scare me away from buying one is the crowd. Yes, it really is that bad. Buying and selling old Honda parts and cars is a nightmare. I've owned 40 cars in my life- the absolute worst experiences, by far, were selling old Honda's or the parts I removed from them. I would rather pull my teeth out, one by one, with a set of vice grips than have to do that again. 
 

Fun cars, but I wouldn't want to have to sell another one. It really is that bad. If you like it, plan on keeping it a while.

I hate selling old Honda parts, I practically try giving them away for stupid cheap and I still have issues selling parts. I've gotten multiple messages on my single cam valve cover and timing belt covers and its been a painful experience of being ghosted multiple times. All for a 50 dollars too. There are certain people in the Honda modding community I just hate dealing with, their cheap, and they still expect a lot. 

I still shudder of having to sell any of the Spoon or Mugen parts I have. While there are people who'd pay for it, Florida honda owners are another set of special.

aw614 said:

roninsoldier83 said:

 

Also, one thing that might scare me away from buying one is the crowd. Yes, it really is that bad. Buying and selling old Honda parts and cars is a nightmare. I've owned 40 cars in my life- the absolute worst experiences, by far, were selling old Honda's or the parts I removed from them. I would rather pull my teeth out, one by one, with a set of vice grips than have to do that again. 
 

Fun cars, but I wouldn't want to have to sell another one. It really is that bad. If you like it, plan on keeping it a while.

I hate selling old Honda parts, I practically try giving them away for stupid cheap and I still have issues selling parts. I've gotten multiple messages on my single cam valve cover and timing belt covers and its been a painful experience of being ghosted multiple times. All for a 50 dollars too. There are certain people in the Honda modding community I just hate dealing with, their cheap, and they still expect a lot. 

I still shudder of having to sell any of the Spoon or Mugen parts I have. While there are people who'd pay for it, Florida honda owners are another set of special.

100%

It's not just Florida Honda owners, as we have the same type of special Honda owners here in Colorado. 

I've parted out and sold quite a few cars over the years. As expected- the Miata community, almost universally pleasant to deal with. The Honda community (notwithstanding the S2000 guys, which have little to no overlap with the old FWD cars), with a few exceptions, are just about universally horrid. I've never had so many people waste my time, or send overly low low-ball offers in my life, even on parts I was practically giving away. Lots of ghosting, extreme low-balling is the norm, just a cesspool of negativity and rude, entitled behavior. More "is this available?" messages than you can shake a stick at, with only maybe ~5% of them being actual potential buyers. 

When you meet many of these folks, it becomes apparent why old 90's Honda's are still commonly stolen to this day. Many of them are of a certain *cough*criminal*cough* element. Upon meeting with some of them (in well-lit, populated areas) to buy/sell parts, I have no doubt that a high percentage of them would have warrants for their arrest if cleared through NCIC. 

The cars are great to drive. The community at large (not counting the very small subset of track junkies) is truly the worst of the worst among car "enthusiasts". 

Couple thots.

-Same as A bodies, B bodies, and G bodies, Civics get yoinked at a surprisingly high rate.  They are not part of the stats because there are not as many out there.  But its the same reason I can't own and enjoy a Grand National while I live in Milwaukee County.  Could never take it into the city or commute with it.

-If I had to travel for work and wasn't provided a company vehicle, there is 0% chance I would trust my career and the way my customers perceive me and my employer to a 25+ year old economy car.  A new F150 may not be in the cards, but a 5 year old Toyota Camry definitely is and will be perceived several magnitudes higher than a 25 year old fart can eqipped Civic.  Work should either let you claim mileage or give you a vehicle stipend or let you rent a car.  

-I understand not liking the LX, I had a 100 series and didn't love it the way the internet would want you to.  They just feel like boring outdated underpowered thirsty SUVs with a bunch of broken plastic, E36 M3ty nav, and no parts availability.  If I need a reliable vehicle that does the same thing as a 100 series but actually is practical its time to shop Explorers or Tahoes.  

93gsxturbo said:

-Same as A bodies, B bodies, and G bodies, Civics get yoinked at a surprisingly high rate.  They are not part of the stats because there are not as many out there. 

It's been a while since I've checked, but as it turns out, Civics are still on the list of top 10 most stolen cars in the US: 

https://www.nicb.org/news/news-releases/new-report-imports-top-list-americas-most-stolen-vehicles

Seemingly, the only reason they're not higher on the list is the recent (within the past few years) discovery that many modern day Kia's and Hyundai's didn't come equipped with immobilizers from the factory and could be easily stolen by any teenager or delinquent with a USB. 


With that said, if the OP is dead-set on an older Honda, kill switches are pretty easy to install and hide in these cars. I used kill switches in conjunction with some variation of "the club" or a removable steering wheel, sometimes combined with a bright yellow/easily visible boot. The club and/or boot can be defeated by someone who is bound and determined to steal your car- but it's frequently a good deterrent in that most people don't want to make a lot of noise or go through the hassle of using a drill or angle grinder. I never actually had a problem parking it on the street- but I live in a pretty nice/low crime area, across the street from a golf course. It did however, become a bit irritating to have to go through multiple steps just to drive my car(s) vs just jumping in and driving away. 

See, I've had nothing but good luck with selling/buying parts to the Honda community.

You just have to set your expectations accordingly.

CrustyRedXpress said:

See, I've had nothing but good luck with selling/buying parts to the Honda community.

You just have to set your expectations accordingly.

I believe that's an accurate representation of the Honda community, drawn to scale. 

Let's just ponder what Tim is planning here.  He's got the sad reality of buying what seems to be great looking cars that should be well sorted but are complete basket cases.  Now he wants to buy a 25 year old car, that's likely been treated extremely poorly and use it as a somewhat DD.  While this will likely result in many entertaining tales for the rest of us, this is not a great idea for Tim.

Tim, buy something newer, under warranty!  We can deal with some boredom...

docwyte said:

Let's just ponder what Tim is planning here.  He's got the sad reality of buying what seems to be great looking cars that should be well sorted but are complete basket cases.  Now he wants to buy a 25 year old car, that's likely been treated extremely poorly and use it as a somewhat DD.  While this will likely result in many entertaining tales for the rest of us, this is not a great idea for Tim.

Tim, buy something newer, under warranty!  We can deal with some boredom...

Good decisions don't make for good stories.  Maybe just have someone more knowledgable about cars go look at these potential rigs with you!?

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

That would help but doesn't change the fact that buying a 25 year old car and expecting it to work as a DD is just a bad idea right out of the gate. 

Many of the cars that I really like were built in the last 1990's and early 2000's.  I'd love another B5 S4 avant (or import a B5 RS4 avant!), or an E36 wagon, but the Audi was a needy car when it was relatively new.  Things haven't gotten better with time and parts supply is drying up.  Me expecting to use any car of that era as a reliable DD is just lunacy.