If campgrounds start putting in superchargers how many people's retirement plans would suddenly become Rivans towing Pebbles?
If campgrounds start putting in superchargers how many people's retirement plans would suddenly become Rivans towing Pebbles?
One concern is that a lot of RV construction is pretty slapdash. Something like this seems very interesting but I would be cautious about being an early adopter.
Lots of systems to go wrong, and who do you get to work on it when you're halfway to BFE.
Edit: re-reading my reply, I do want to clarify that this seems like a very good concept. Implementation, support, and how robust is the final product are the most critical elements. Towing a few miles a year vs. going to Alaska via the ALKAN is going to matter. RVs really take a beating.
Really cool idea but reeks of vaporware. If it ever actually reaches mass production, wait for the v2...
In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :
You already knew that I was thinking out taking it to Alaska to stay. Having a spot in Anchorage is nice, but being able to spend extended time in Girdwood, Steward and Homer would be the plan. The bonus with Steward and Homer being able to get to Juneau, Sitka and Ketchikan without having the drive back up to Anchorage when getting back ashore if going by boat.
Is that the one that turns into a boat? Nope, guess not.
GearJunkie.com: Part House Boat, Part Camper Trailer: Meet the Caracat Amphibious RV
I'm skeptical of the trailer helping me by pushing. I would think that would be pretty squirrely.
I'm also a little bit of a purist. I have a couple older RVs and a tent. I'm also known to just sleep on the ground sometimes. RVs can be trouble enough without all those bells and whistles. Nothing worse than being out camping and get a fault code that won't let you open the door, or a malfunction and you can't use the toilet. I guess that would be a P-000P code?
There is something to be said for simplicity. I'll gladly put down my own steps and open my own windows if it means it's not another fail point.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:
There is something to be said for simplicity. I'll gladly put down my own steps and open my own windows if it means it's not another fail point.
So many manufacturers fail at this. Upgrades are great where they make sense, but upgrading everything is... not quite lipstick on a pig, but I can't think of a better expression
Alls I can say is that for $109,000 it better convert into a boat.
$109,000.00 to $125,000.00
That is insanity for a 25' camper trailer. Hard pass for me.
For that kind of money, you can buy this and enough diesel to drive it 80k to 110k miles.
I wonder how much it would be to retrofit an old trailer? A Tesla Powerwall if about $8K and can run a house for a few days, so a 20' trailer would be no problem. Figure $1500 for solar panels and another $500 for wires and stuff. Its feasible if you really wanted to.
The advantage of electric to me versus diesel is the ability to live in it doing remote work during the week and to go off the grid (with some level of connectivity) during the weekend/long weekends.
In reply to Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :
You can live in and boondock a diesel.
If the temps are nice and you don't need AC, the EndOver will run 2-3 days on the 2500 kWh batteries and a sip of propane for the fridge. That includes the inverter that keeps the 120v plugs working so you can make coffee or run the microwave. The furnace runs on gas and batteries so winter isn't an issue. If you need or want AC or the heat pump, that's going to require a generator or shore power. The EndOver is set up so that when the thermostat calls for cooling or the heat pump, it will start the genset, bring it up to temp, then fire up the heat pump. It will run until the thermostat is satisfied, then it shuts the heat pump down, and after a cool down shuts down the genset. It will also fire up the generator and charge the batteries if they drop below the low set voltage. The genset is also an inverter generator so the engine spends a fair amount of time running at half speed or less burning .25-.5 gallons per hour.
While the Pebble is a tech marvel, I can buy a lot of fuel for the $50k difference in price. Enough to run the genset for 4 years straight. Since I only run the generator 40-60 hours a year, I can use some of the fuel to drive to the next camping spot.
In reply to Toyman! :
If working remotely I would be running a computer and Internet a solid amount and would be doing more involved food preparation than coffee, otherwise I could backpack it with a Coleman stove.
I also have zero interest in wanting to hear a generator or diesel engine run in the remote wilderness whenever I need juice. Diesel works and it's cheap technology, it's cheap because it's antiquated and quite frankly, it sucks. Does it get the job done, sure, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't suck.
pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) said:I wonder how much it would be to retrofit an old trailer? A Tesla Powerwall if about $8K and can run a house for a few days, so a 20' trailer would be no problem. Figure $1500 for solar panels and another $500 for wires and stuff. Its feasible if you really wanted to.
Something like this is what id want. Easy to deploy solar, some extra battery and the ability to charge the tow vehicle from the trailer. Id even skip a big battery if it means a cheaper and lighter trailer. Simpler is better.
Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:If campgrounds start putting in superchargers how many people's retirement plans would suddenly become Rivans towing Pebbles?
Superchargers?... The infrastructure supporting most campgrounds can already barely provide decent 120V service.
Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:I'm skeptical of the trailer helping me by pushing. I would think that would be pretty squirrely.
If the trailer is set up to provide just less than the full power required to move it, then it shouldn't actually ever be 'pushing' at the hitch, and there are many situations in which conventional trailers are already pushing without getting squirrely. So I don't see it being a problem from a technical standpoint, so much from a previous experience perception standpoint. Since the base price is without motor assist, it also would just be getting pulled in that case. Although, the '3.5X Powerwall' seems to become a bit excessive at that point. For EV towing, they'd really just need to figure out a way to use the battery to feed the tow vehicle instead, where the motor assist would if anything be more useful for ICE... But with it being aimed more at EV's, apparently for somebody already ok with $110k, the extra $15k must be an easy upsell.
Even with the aluminum/composite construction, I do find it interesting that they expect to keep it under 6200 GVWR with all of the batteries, and motors, and whatnot, and still have any reasonable cargo carrying capacity.
In reply to Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :
I don't hate the idea of the Pebble, I just have doubts about its capabilities.
I also don't think you are going to get what you think with the Pebble. If it's pushing itself down the road, you either arrive with a depleted battery or have to stop for a charge before you get where you are going. Stopping isn't the end of the world but there aren't a lot of chargers in those remote wilderness camping areas. Most of my camping areas are 20-30 miles away from modern conveniences like charging stations.
Unfortunately, where the Pebble really comes up short is there isn't enough solar on it to charge the battery, run your electronics, run an electric range and oven, fridge, and heat pump. Most AC units eat about 1200 watts of solar per ton of cooling assuming max efficiency and a minimum of 4 hours of peak sun per day. Most 25' campers require around 1.5-3 tons of cooling if they are parked in full sun. The Pebble has 1000 watts of solar on the roof. Even if the heat pump is 20% more efficient, you still don't have the capacity to keep up. They claim 7 days between charges if the solar is working.
What that boils down to, is you are going to have to have some type of exterior charging to keep the batteries alive. That takes the form of shore power, which is what I use 95% of the time, or a generator which I use the other 5% of the time. You could also deploy another 1000 watts or so of solar if you can integrate it with the Pebble systems.
Take the heat pump out of the equation, and the Pebble isn't much different than a Class A DP. The only thing I really need power for is the fridge and it will run a week if everything else is off. The lighting is LED and uses almost no power. I have a 200 watt folding solar panel I can deploy to keep up with those if needed. The cooktop is propane. The water heater is propane. I also carry 3 times the tankage so I can go 2-3 weeks with two people taking care of 3 S before I have to dump. I will have to go get propane every year or so though.
You do you, but if someone offered me $50k+ to listen to a Onan QD run for a couple of hours every 3-4 days, I'm taking the money. Then I'll double my battery capacity for a couple of grand and only have to listen to it every week.
In reply to Toyman! :
Where I tend to camp in the summer there's more than 20 hours of daylight and it rarely exceeds 75* degrees.
I'd be targeting 4 days at a time without hooking up, if I can manage 6, even better.
Is it a niche, absolutely, but it's one that if the product comes to fruition, fits my niche incredibly well.
In reply to Captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :
That is outstanding. If some of that tech trickles down to my niche that's even better.
We frequently camp in 90-degree weather which is why I'm looking for powered campgrounds.
In reply to Toyman! :
One of the great things about tech is it trickles down and it becomes more cost effective when it does. TopGear did a piece on the Mercedes S class over a decade ago and pointed out features the debut on the S class and then become standard place 20-30 years later. I don't ever think of the S-Class as a cutting edge modern marvel, but it is an early adapter with regards to features and content.
I assume the pushing power of the Pebble is on an as-needed basis, like when you're going up hills, and then it's idle the rest of the time. If that's the case, in most cases it's not going to use up all its battery capacity before you get to the campsite. I knew a guy who developed a 'pusher' system for trailers some years ago; it used an internal combustion engine but otherwise operated in a similar matter and it worked pretty well.
In reply to stuart in mn :
According to their website, it can push itself continuously like when towing with an EV to extend range. It can also propel itself when needed such as when climbing a hill. They also suggested using the regenerative braking to charge it when pulling with a gas or diesel. How it operates is app-selectable.
At 6400 pounds it's going to take something full size to handle it, even with it helping.
I get the allure. I think (if it makes it to market at all) they'll sell some to newbie suburbanites who think "camping" is something done at a Hilton, and they budget that buying a Pebble will break even after 30 nights in the executive suite. They'll buy it, hate it, but tell all their friends how amazing it is. They'll eventually stop using it, but not sell it to save face and let the Smith's next door think they're better. Then, once it's no longer a conversation piece in the cul-de-sac, they'll unload it to some young couple for a tenth of what they paid for it and go back to redeeming some more Hilton points.
I'm not saying it's a bad camper at all. It might be wonderful. That's just my prediction.
For me, I have a 1993 Keystone 5er. I use it for at least 2 months out of the year, sometimes 3, and I don't mean on the weekends, I mean I disappear in late June and sometimes don't come back until September or October. I've had it for three years now, and I haven't refilled either of the two 30-lb propane tanks, mostly because about all I use it for is the stove. If I lose shore power, I have a deep cycle battery that keeps led lights running for days, and will run the furnace for 8-12 hours if needed. I ditched the LP/AC/DC fridge for a residential fridge. I just keep a remote temp sensor in it, and if it gets too warm in there without shore power, an hour or so of an inverter or a generator will kick it back down to 34F. This is by no means a boondocking setup, but for an RV that gets shore power most nights, it's a no-brainer with very little to fail. If I invested in some more mAh and some solar, I see no reason why this couldn't be a boondock setup.
But [caveat warning] this is also because when I camp, I use it to cook a couple meals and sleep in. It's not a hotel room with Netflix and entertainment. It's a moving bunk. I get up, get out, and do stuff during the day. If you were to use it as a 24/7 live-in house where the kids watch Nickelodeon all day and run the A/C, probably not so much.
Comparing the newest thing to used is never fair. Compare it to an Airstream which is just as expensive if not more so than these. Given how many Airstreams I see there's probably a market for this. Assuming it's as well built as an airstream!
In reply to dculberson :
Yeah, at $20k more than an Airstream 25FB, the Pebble is in line with where it needs to be. It brings that extra $20k to the table with the solar and battery capacity.
Then again, in 2007 the EndOver had an MSRP of $244k. Comparing it to something that costs half as much in today's dollars makes the Pebble pricing seem almost reasonable.
It makes me happy I don't shop for new stuff and let others take the initial depreciation hit.
Toyman! said:
It makes me happy I don't shop for new stuff and let others take the initial depreciation hit.
definitely! I cannot fathom paying what some people drop on rvs and motor homes. Just breathtaking.
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