Does A LS Swap Now Make Everything More Valuable?

Obviously, there are limits, but bear with me.

I have an International Travelette that I plan to convert to 2wd with a Crown Vic swap.   Since it didn't come with any drivetrain, I have been fumbling around a bit with what to repower it with.   

At first I was thinking of just using the 4.6 from my donor as it runs well, and I already have it, but that really didn't feel right.   Cummins swap is always an option, however I'm not a fan of swapping them into anything that doesn't actually need one, and the upside really isn't that great for what you pay for one.  Other MoPar based swaps appeal only to myself, and although the 7.3 Powerstroke seems the most fitting, it really would be a lot of work for something that would probably only be appreciated by 7 people, 6 of whom would never buy it, and the 7th being, well, me.   SBC is right out, as I have never been much of a fan, although I did talk my dad into a 350 swap for his '40 Ford a couple decades ago, since it would make it much easier to sell for the least amount of investment once he was tired of it.

Well, this leads me to the LS.  For similar reasons.   I know- build what you want, and don't worry about anyone else, but I want the truck to "feel" right to me, and I don't want to be stuck with it if and when something else shiny catches my eye.   So, is the LS the "answer" when it comes to resale?

It would certainly be easier to justify than something weird like an old Studebaker engine. But I suspect that the quality of the swap is going to matter more than the engine itself. Does everything work? Like, EVERYTHING? is the wiring well done? Does it require any special instructions before driving? A complete, well, executed Studebaker swap is probably going to be more valuable than an 80% done LS swap with only 75% of the work left to do. 

Everything, no.  For sure not.  

Does it make some vehicles more valuable? yes.

Does it make a lot of cars a heck of a lot faster, useable, reliable, etc.... ?  No question.  

But a more important question at this point- are you building the car for sale or your personal usage?  If it's the latter, who cares about resale value.

Cooter said:

Obviously, there are limits, but bear with me.

I have an International Travelette that I plan to convert to 2wd with a Crown Vic swap.   Since it didn't come with any drivetrain, I have been fumbling around a bit with what to repower it with.   

At first I was thinking of just using the 4.6 from my donor as it runs well, and I already have it, but that really didn't feel right.   Cummins swap is always an option, however I'm not a fan of swapping them into anything that doesn't actually need one, and the upside really isn't that great for what you pay for one.  Other MoPar based swaps appeal only to myself, and although the 7.3 Powerstroke seems the most fitting, it really would be a lot of work for something that would probably only be appreciated by 7 people, 6 of whom would never buy it, and the 7th being, well, me.   SBC is right out, as I have never been much of a fan, although I did talk my dad into a 350 swap for his '40 Ford a couple decades ago, since it would make it much easier to sell for the least amount of investment once he was tired of it.

Well, this leads me to the LS.  For similar reasons.   I know- build what you want, and don't worry about anyone else, but I want the truck to "feel" right to me, and I don't want to be stuck with it if and when something else shiny catches my eye.   So, is the LS the "answer" when it comes to resale?

I'd say you pretty much answered your question right there.

What are you trying to build and why?  Would the end result really benefit from the advantages an LS has over a basic SBC (or even the 4.6)? Will the truck be more of a weekend toy or something you want to be reliable and comfortable?

The more money you invest into it, the more you'll want out of it should you need to sell and a higher price will likely make selling more difficult.

If you're going to do the work to swap it out, and a Ford Modular Engine (4.6 or 5.4) isn't what you want to own, then YES.  The answer to your question is most defiantly go with the LS engine. 

It's got HUGE after market support, makes great power (it's in big Chevy trucks) and has tons of information available now, and will in the future.

Well, you already know about my brother’s Suburban.  I’m sure that he would insist that it could be driven from New Jersey to Illinois. Chassis swap might be the Easy Button here!

Keith Tanner said:

It would certainly be easier to justify than something weird like an old Studebaker engine. But I suspect that the quality of the swap is going to matter more than the engine itself. Does everything work? Like, EVERYTHING? is the wiring well done? Does it require any special instructions before driving? A complete, well, executed Studebaker swap is probably going to be more valuable than an 80% done LS swap with only 75% of the work left to do. 

I could sell the Travelette with a tired 4.8 sitting crooked under the hood disconnected quicker and for more money than with the most perfectly swapped Studebaker.  Such is the power of the phrase "LS Swap".   I would not even get anyone out to look at it with the Studebaker; it would be easier to sell without a drivetrain.

And that is my point.   I don't want to be stuck with it and/or forced to swap an LS or SBC into it anyway when I have to sell it due to my declining health.  Or worse, have my wfe have to junk it for pennies on the dollar if I have a grabber.

alfadriver said:

Everything, no.  For sure not.  

Does it make some vehicles more valuable? yes.

Does it make a lot of cars a heck of a lot faster, useable, reliable, etc.... ?  No question.  

But a more important question at this point- are you building the car for sale or your personal usage?  If it's the latter, who cares about resale value.

I do.

See above.

Ian F said:

Cooter said:

Obviously, there are limits, but bear with me.

I have an International Travelette that I plan to convert to 2wd with a Crown Vic swap.   Since it didn't come with any drivetrain, I have been fumbling around a bit with what to repower it with.   

At first I was thinking of just using the 4.6 from my donor as it runs well, and I already have it, but that really didn't feel right.   Cummins swap is always an option, however I'm not a fan of swapping them into anything that doesn't actually need one, and the upside really isn't that great for what you pay for one.  Other MoPar based swaps appeal only to myself, and although the 7.3 Powerstroke seems the most fitting, it really would be a lot of work for something that would probably only be appreciated by 7 people, 6 of whom would never buy it, and the 7th being, well, me.   SBC is right out, as I have never been much of a fan, although I did talk my dad into a 350 swap for his '40 Ford a couple decades ago, since it would make it much easier to sell for the least amount of investment once he was tired of it.

Well, this leads me to the LS.  For similar reasons.   I know- build what you want, and don't worry about anyone else, but I want the truck to "feel" right to me, and I don't want to be stuck with it if and when something else shiny catches my eye.   So, is the LS the "answer" when it comes to resale?

I'd say you pretty much answered your question right there.

What are you trying to build and why?  Would the end result really benefit from the advantages an LS has over a basic SBC (or even the 4.6)? Will the truck be more of a weekend toy or something you want to be reliable and comfortable?

The more money you invest into it, the more you'll want out of it should you need to sell and a higher price will likely make selling more difficult.

I'm not looking to make bank on it, but I certainly don't want to make it difficult to sell if the need and/or the want arise.   And I suspect you are correct (about answering my own question)

Indy-Guy said:

If you're going to do the work to swap it out, and a Ford Modular Engine (4.6 or 5.4) isn't what you want to own, then YES.  The answer to your question is most defiantly go with the LS engine. 

It's got HUGE after market support, makes great power (it's in big Chevy trucks) and has tons of information available now, and will in the future.

 

That answers my question the best.  I am indifferent about the 4.6, and TBH, indifferent about an LS, but it just seems like the least downside.

It is the same reason why odd engined street rods (even MoPar in a MoPar) never sell well.

Woody said:

Well, you already know about my brother’s Suburban.  I’m sure that he would insist that it could be driven from New Jersey to Illinois. Chassis swap might be the Easy Button here!

I'm not ready to pull the trigger yet, but yes, that 'burb would be perfect, including giving me an excuse for a slightly sketchy Fly/Train/Bus/TowBarASaturn and Drive.

If people built cars for resale value,  no one would build cars. 

In reply to Appleseed :

It certainly appears from the advertising I hear for new vehicles that you are completely incorrect.  

 

Cooter said:

Keith Tanner said:

It would certainly be easier to justify than something weird like an old Studebaker engine. But I suspect that the quality of the swap is going to matter more than the engine itself. Does everything work? Like, EVERYTHING? is the wiring well done? Does it require any special instructions before driving? A complete, well, executed Studebaker swap is probably going to be more valuable than an 80% done LS swap with only 75% of the work left to do. 

I could sell the Travelette with a tired 4.8 sitting crooked under the hood disconnected quicker and for more money than with the most perfectly swapped Studebaker.  Such is the power of the phrase "LS Swap".   I would not even get anyone out to look at it with the Studebaker; it would be easier to sell without a drivetrain.

And that is my point.   I don't want to be stuck with it and/or forced to swap an LS or SBC into it anyway when I have to sell it due to my declining health.  Or worse, have my wfe have to junk it for pennies on the dollar if I have a grabber.

So you asked a question, and now you're stating what the answer is.

1. It's worth more with an LS than with anything else (we don't agree there)

2. You don't want to be forced into an LS.

As long as you consider the LS option to be one that you're forced into instead of the...whatever...you really want, you will have conflict between those two points. So either make peace with the fact that you'll have to jam a crappy LS engine there against your will, or try to figure out just why it's become the default swap and learn to like it :)

I chose Studebaker for my example so it didn't turn into a "but the XXXX is the best engine EVER!" comment thread. I think that any well-executed major swap (Coyote, Hemi, Hellcat, rotary, Cummins, whatever) is going to be judged more on the execution than the name on the valve cover.

If you swap in a LS, then the vehicle would definitely be worth as much as an LS motor.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I never said I really want anything else in this project. I said that I don't want to be forced to swap an LS or SBC into it anyway when I have to sell it.   I really don't have a drivetrain preference for this one, unlike most every other vehicle I own.   I just don't want to put something else (like 4.6 for example, or even a 408 MoPar or a ) into it, and then have to swap it out just so I can sell it later.  You are reading something that I didn't say.  For myself, it just needs to tun and drive, and be factory injected.

For resale, it is more along the lines of a street rod, and if it has to have a different make drivetrain, it needs to be something that is appealing to the masses.  I buy a lot of vehicles, and I also shop a whole lot more.  I see the orphan swapped stuff languishing on the market for months, and even years.  When they sell, the drivetrain is usually swapped out for something mainstream...



 

In reply to Cooter :

In that case, I'd stick with the 4.6 from the Crown Vic.  It would make more sense from just about any POV to stick with the engine that goes with that chassis rather than going through the hassle of acquiring and fitting a drive train from another manufacturer entirely.

Is the plan to fit the Traveller body onto the C-V pan?

Cooter said:

 

......  I see the orphan swapped stuff languishing on the market for months, and even years.  .....

 

Like the RX8 with the Ford 300ci. Inline 6 swap (recently posted here.)

Indy-Guy said:

Cooter said:

 

......  I see the orphan swapped stuff languishing on the market for months, and even years.  .....

 

Like the RX8 with the Ford 300ci. Inline 6 swap (recently posted here.)

But even that is probably because of the general swap quality and not the swap content. Orphan swaps tend to be hacks since there are very few options other than Jimbobs stick welder.

The 'general car people' population actually have a chance at pulling off a nice LS swap in most cases by buying all the parts and just assembling them. 

I'm trying to echo that quality = resale more than anything else. There is a very small market for anything swapped anything to begin with.

Keith Tanner said:

Cooter said:

Keith Tanner said:

It would certainly be easier to justify than something weird like an old Studebaker engine. But I suspect that the quality of the swap is going to matter more than the engine itself. Does everything work? Like, EVERYTHING? is the wiring well done? Does it require any special instructions before driving? A complete, well, executed Studebaker swap is probably going to be more valuable than an 80% done LS swap with only 75% of the work left to do. 

I could sell the Travelette with a tired 4.8 sitting crooked under the hood disconnected quicker and for more money than with the most perfectly swapped Studebaker.  Such is the power of the phrase "LS Swap".   I would not even get anyone out to look at it with the Studebaker; it would be easier to sell without a drivetrain.

And that is my point.   I don't want to be stuck with it and/or forced to swap an LS or SBC into it anyway when I have to sell it due to my declining health.  Or worse, have my wfe have to junk it for pennies on the dollar if I have a grabber.

So you asked a question, and now you're stating what the answer is.

1. It's worth more with an LS than with anything else (we don't agree there)

2. You don't want to be forced into an LS.

As long as you consider the LS option to be one that you're forced into instead of the...whatever...you really want, you will have conflict between those two points. So either make peace with the fact that you'll have to jam a crappy LS engine there against your will, or try to figure out just why it's become the default swap and learn to like it :)

I chose Studebaker for my example so it didn't turn into a "but the XXXX is the best engine EVER!" comment thread. I think that any well-executed major swap (Coyote, Hemi, Hellcat, rotary, Cummins, whatever) is going to be judged more on the execution than the name on the valve cover.

Since the Ninja Edit, I feel I need to address a couple points.   I never felt forced into a LS swap.   I actually never even considered an LS swap until this one.  

I don't agree with any "best engine evaar!!11!!" philosophy, but I really don't hate any of them, either.   I do have my own preferences, but I also know it isn't because they are the "best",  as most any engine has a good and bad about it.

All I am looking for is something with modern fuel injection, relative ease of swapping (that narrows it down a bit to the common and/or also engines that I know well)  

I don't need a ton of power, but the ability to reliability drive at highway speeds is a must.   V8 is also a must. (the previous two rule out the rotary)  Cost versus what I may need to sell the vehicle for later is important (this really rules out the Coyote, Hellcat, Cummins (even if I allowed it past the V8 filter) and the Hemi, for that matter.   The only choices left after all of that are the 4.6, SBC (Vortech and LT1) and Magnum based SBMs... and the LS engines.   Cost and ease of install vs resale take out the 4.6.  I really don't want a Vortech SBC, and the LT1 has already given me enough headaches in my lifetime to never want another.  And while a Magnum engine is appealing, the only way I would be able to sell the IH after I was done would be to a MoPar guy.  And he would be unlikely to want it, because the engine was in a Cornbinder.

That leaves the LS. Cheap to buy, cheap to swap, and appealing to the masses.  And I am okay with that.   This was more of a example of thinking out loud, and posting some content.

Cooter said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I never said I really want anything else in this project. I said that I don't want to be forced to swap an LS or SBC into it anyway when I have to sell it.   I really don't have a drivetrain preference for this one, unlike most every other vehicle I own.   I just don't want to put something else (like 4.6 for example, or even a 408 MoPar or a ) into it, and then have to swap it out just so I can sell it later.  You are reading something that I didn't say.  For myself, it just needs to tun and drive, and be factory injected.

For resale, it is more along the lines of a street rod, and if it has to have a different make drivetrain, it needs to be something that is appealing to the masses.  I buy a lot of vehicles, and I also shop a whole lot more.  I see the orphan swapped stuff languishing on the market for months, and even years.  When they sell, the drivetrain is usually swapped out for something mainstream...

Gotcha.

I don't think an LS would carry enough of a premium over a 4.6 swap to justify changing. That's still pretty mainstream and a well-supported motor. You say it just has to turn and drive and be factory injected, but also that the easy button - the 4.6 out of your donor - doesn't feel right. So there are other factors you're considering as well. How far from the mainstream do you have to get for it to feel right?

Ian F said:

In reply to Cooter :

In that case, I'd stick with the 4.6 from the Crown Vic.  It would make more sense from just about any POV to stick with the engine that goes with that chassis rather than going through the hassle of acquiring and fitting a drive train from another manufacturer entirely.

Is the plan to fit the Traveller body onto the C-V pan?

I REALLY wanted to just swap the Travelette onto the Panther frame, and if that didn't seem like a huge PITA, the 4.6 would have been a near slam dunk.  (I even started researching different 03+ Panther platforms to fid a suitable donor, to little avail)  But I would prefer to keep the stock IH frame and not have to lengthen the CV chassis and also modify the IH cab and bed to fit the chassis.   The front suspension swap is easier to me, and at that point, any engine is mostly motor mounts, oil pan and exhaust (along with engine management) away from swapping into the chassis.    And even engine management is easier with the LS than the Ford to me, as I am not interested in putting the Vic dash int to the Travelette, as so many do.

As others have said, having a running, driving sorted swap done counts for the most.

Since this is not going to be original, I suspect keeping 4WD and having it be operational will matter more overall for resale than what power plant it ultimately winds up with. At least where I am, somebody on the Outer Banks would gobble it up, because there is currently some kind of contest to have the most oddball vintage 4x4 out on the beach. Woody mentioned the Suburban on the chopping block- that seems like a winner to me.

Beyond that, I'd wager that putting an old diesel system and a manual trans could appeal to somebody who wants a SHTF truck.
 

Keith Tanner said:

Gotcha.

I don't think an LS would carry enough of a premium over a 4.6 swap to justify changing. That's still pretty mainstream and a well-supported motor. You say it just has to turn and drive and be factory injected, but also that the easy button - the 4.6 out of your donor - doesn't feel right. So there are other factors you're considering as well. How far from the mainstream do you have to get for it to feel right?

That's the balance that I am trying to figure out.  I don't need it to be weird for weird's sake to feel right.   I actually was all in with the 4.6 at first.  And then two things happened.  First, I started to think about whether I would be able to sell it quickly if a later, square body Travelette or Wagonmaster became available.  Second, I realized what 4.6l is in good old 'merican cubic inches.    The second part is just me, of course, especially since at 250Hp, the PI 4.6 is more powerful than than any of the Magnum engines that I would swap into it (we won't get directly into torque right now) and light years ahead of what the original engine had going for it.  

So, to think about it right now, and if I was still in my early 30s and not worried about cost, I would probably swap in a brand new 392 SRT crate engine I saw cheap recently.  But that would be $5K, and I would still have to figure out packaging, a $1500 engine management system, and a transmission.   I also have other vehicles that I would prefer to put that engine into.  Also, I'm a cheap SOB.  

The engine that fits the character or the vehicle the best to my mind would be a 7.3 Powerstroke.   It is IH based.   And from a Ford (not that it would make it fit any better on a CV crossmember, not to mention the weight) But I really don't think I want to go down that rabbit hole at this stage of my life.

I think I would be fine with an LS; I've never had one make me POed yet, and that in itself is a big deal (of course I've never owned one, and may not have even driven one in my lifetime)  I would want a 6.0, just because the IH isn't exactly small.  But I am weirdly okay with the 5.3, and maybe even a 4.8 (gasp)  Okay, probably not, as the price difference isn't that huge between them.

The other engine that comes to mind would be the giant Vortec 8100 series (I really have to make myself stop adding that "h" every time)  But those really aren't easy to find (I hope)

Cooter said:

Cummins swap is always an option, however I'm not a fan of swapping them into anything that doesn't actually need one

I’m confused... I don’t think I’ve seen anything that doesn’t need a Cummins