Looking for a rwd, manual and really want to go German but maybe the lower buy-in of the Mustang with money left over for suspension and stiffness upgrades might be a good trade-off?
(Living in New England, I’m a believer that a rwd, manual with snow tires will get you there and back)
The V6 cars are slow, the V8 cars aren't that fast unless you get one of the later versions of the GT unless you step straight to a Cobra. I wouldn't want one to deal with snow, good tires and a manual trans or not, but maybe a V6 wouldn't be so bad.
I had a '95 GT convertible not that long ago and I really think I should have gone German instead. Or Miata and mods for tall drivers. Or FC RX-7 and an engine swap.
had a long post, but lost it.
had my 97 cobra for 15 years now and also drove a 94 v6 auto vert in the winter in highschool.
V6 also has headgasket weakness problems.
94-95GT - builders delight
96-98 GT - not all that great
99-04 GT - decent amount of fun
96-98 Cobra - revs well, not much power down low.
99/01 cobra (no 2000 cobra) - like the 96-98 but with IRS that is heavier, but soaks up bumps better.
03-04 cobra -
(seriously, 03-04 cobra pully + chip + exhaust = 500hp)
Happy to share the setup on mine, it works pretty well without having gone too parts crazy.
That all said. my cobra vs an E36M3, the E36 will handle better, even if you throw parts at the mustang. Mine has 57% front weight (with an aluminium engine...) some things are hard to work around. That said, V8s are fun for sound and acceleration (I should really replace my 3.27's with 3.55's)
what else you want to know?
Miata’s out due to 4 seater needs. And I’m not in a position for a full-on swap for a daily driver.
In reply to Apexcarver :
I want you to show me a rwd, manual fun 4 seater that I can buy “as is” and be a reliable daily driver! I absolutely cannot be stranded with an unreliable project as a daily driver but I’m not ready to submit to an econobox fwd either.
And its been FAR too long without RWD and a “Manuel” transmission!
Btw, an inline 6, manual, rwd is just as good as a V8 for my purposes.
what budget range you looking at?
Honestly, if you were to go mustang, I think the 99-04 GT is the best deal out there. The PI SOHC modular engines are very durable (Look at taxicabs, plus, they have held up in Lemons) and I doubt the parts will ever dry up on them. That said, Konis, H&R race springs, Camber plates, and the big addco front bar and it will be tons of fun. Only maintenance issue (to my experience) will be rebuilding the stock trac-lok limited slip every few years if you autocross it a lot. ~$100-$150 and a few hours on jackstands. Note that this is not a "stop driving" issue, but a "pegleg like a drunken pirate" issue. Just take some care in choosing mods, for instance, aftermarket upper rear control arms can/will fracture the floorpan, dont do it.
BMW's can take a bit more work to upkeep, but much more ready to go out of the box. You could likely even get one with 4 doors.
Whats your budget for this?
Having lived in New England with rwd and snow tires, yeah, it'll get you there, but sometimes you'll get to smell the roses while you wait for the tow truck to pull you out.
Big difference between my E36 M3 on snows and my Audi Quattro on snows when I lived there!!
For what little it's worth here are my thoughts on the subject as an ex-upstate New Yorker.
I drove RWD cars and trucks for decades through NY winters. Plymouth Furies, Crown Vics, Pickup trucks, vans... Good studded snow tires and some driver skill will get you where you need to go most of the time. However, I wouldn't drive a Mustang of any vintage through a New England winter. There are two reasons for that. One is that the low ground clearance is a problem that even good tires can't overcome. The other is road salt. Not all New England states use as much as NY does but I just can't bring myself to subject a car I like to that environment.
I've put a few miles on a '97 GT auto convertible in traffic and don't see any problems with it other than problems this specific car has. (questionable tires that refuse to do their job mostly). This one has plenty of squeaks and rattles but it's a very high mile 90s Ford, sort of expected. I think I'd get a 5.0 car if I was to get one purely because it takes up less space under the hood.
Drive one. You might hate it or you might like it. A Mustang won't be any less reliable than any other domestic car from that era.
I like how pony cars drive but then I also liked the character laden driving dynamics of my 94 Ranger. A Mustang, even modified to handle well, will never have the poise of the Germans.
In reply to BlueInGreen44 :
You know, I bet if you called Maximum Motorsports, and starting with a Cobra IRS, you could make an SN95 feel quite composed/poised/nice/etc. They seem to have worked quite hard on making that IRS work properly, for lack of a better term, and spring rates selected for a decent ride/handling compromise without all the binding and slop in the solid rear axle setup. And then a front setup with, say, the late Cobra control arms and different parts thrown in to reduce bumpsteer. Cobra front brakes if it's not a Cobra as well. Good seats and a steering wheel not meant for a Taurus, you know, make it a nicer place to spend time behind the wheel. Some sound and heat control for the interior.
Or just start with an E36 or E46. This is why I'm suggesting going after the car that was more right in the first place instead of having to fix a bunch of 70's econo-car engineering that lived well past its sell-by-date.
I owned a 91 V8 mustang and a 94 E36 back to back. I did not care for the Mustang as a daily driver, even though it had been fully refreshed inside and out by the previous owner. It wasn't a great period for interior comfort, ergonomics, or style in Dearborn. The E36 was light years better, not really that far behind current models of the 3 series for the driving experience.
Later on the Mustang drivetrain wound up in the E36 chassis, but that's a different story.
Around here at least you can find E36s with cream puff chassis/interior and a blown head gasket. The radiator inlet is plastic and it gets brittle, then shears off, resulting in an instant overheating disaster. They go for $1k-$2k and if you have two weekends to dedicate to pulling the head, taking it to the machine shop, and reinstalling it, the bottom ends are bulletproof and it will be good for 100,000 miles.
I've had a BMW 540i/6 (V8, manual, RWD) and a 96 Mustang GT (V8, manual, RWD). The Mustang feels significantly less refined. The interior is way worse. The stock engine is somewhat underpowered. Everything rattles. A bone stock E36 M3 will easily outrun it.
On the flip side, a Mustang will be much cheaper to service and modify than a BMW. BMW modding is mostly limited to the suspension, since their engines don't really respond well to bolt-on mods. BMW parts also cost a lot more, even if you buy aftermarket ones. And there's far less room under the hood in a BMW.
If you want cheap thrills and cheap mods, get a 94-95 GT. Those still have the good old 5.0 pushrod motor that the Fox-body guys have figured out to a science. Heads/cams add easy power to that motor, and it's got a good bit of grunt even in stock form.
ebonyandivory said:In reply to Apexcarver :
I want you to show me a rwd, manual fun 4 seater that I can buy “as is” and be a reliable daily driver! I absolutely cannot be stranded with an unreliable project as a daily driver but I’m not ready to submit to an econobox fwd either.
Lexus IS300 manual.
$5K, manual, RWD, inline 6, and it's a Toyota.
I have an e 36 m3/4/5 that will be for sale..... but I'm on the left coast...
i had a 96 gt before the m3 and they were both nice. The mustang's interior held up better and the motor has no issues that I'm aware of.
The two valve 4.6's seemed to enjoy puking up sparkplug threads and being a bit slower (at least feeling) than the 5.0 cars that came before them. They did get better tail lights and I think the transmission was a bit stronger in those. Probably a few other things I can't think of at the moment.
Had a v6 with snow tires and it was one of the worst winter cars I ever had. I would drive my Porsche in the snow before that thing.
Wrong season in the NE to be truck shopping but any awd with AT tires is the winter beater of choice.
dean1484 said:Had a v6 with snow tires and it was one of the worst winter cars I ever had. I would drive my Porsche in the snow before that thing.
Wrong season in the NE to be truck shopping but any awd with AT tires is the winter beater of choice.
I drive a Yukon Denali awd with new A/T’s and this car musing is for next year at the earliest. That said, I can’t shake the memory of driving a 2wd Ranger 5 speed with no weight in the bed through five New England winters and never had an issue.
What are your back seat requirements? If it’s your kids, I recommend taking them along to test out the back seat.
I live in Maine and last year drove a 2003 v6 mustang. I had studless snow tires on it. Most fun I have had winter driving in years! I never got stuck. I had an adventure driving in boston during a major snow storm, but on the way back to Maine it was more than fine. I even rally crossed it three times. I did it for the fun factor and it never let me down once. I just sold it to get a better rally cross car. If I hadn't I would be anxiously waiting for the first snow. My 2 cents.
while mine was a foxbody i survived 2 winters in ohio driving it just fine. good snow tires and throttle modulation help alot. i learned to drive in a 2wd toyota pick up so the occasional wheelspin wasnt a new feeling too me. In deep powder they struggle a bit because the chin spoilers push snow. My biggest issue was a lack of abs would cause rear tire lock up early occasionally. if you go sn95 you get abs so that shouldnt be a big issue.
I once found myself in white-out (blizzard) conditions at the top of Loveland pass--- I- 70 in Colorado. (Eisenhower tunnel) I was driving a 96 Mustang Cobra on Summer tires.
I began the decent very, very slowly, as the road was nothing but snow and ice. All of the sudden I lost the rear end, and the car began a lurid slide down the mountain. As we were sliding backwards, I reassured my girlfriend by saying...." Oh berkeley!" That didn't seem to placate her. I put the car in neutral, gently applied a little brake, and the car quit rotating and stopped---- facing the wrong way on the Interstate--- looking up the mountain. All of the other cars had seen my malady, and stopped. I got the Mustang headed in the right direction, and headed down the hill at 5mph or so. Once down, I still had a decent distance to go to get to Breckenridge. The car was on ice-skates, all over the place. It was one of the most white-knuckle drives of my life, but we made it.
A Mustang may be do-able on snow tires---- but don't attempt a serious winter without proper rubber. They can be absolutely treacherous without!
That section of I-70 gets really icy. Plus people are just popping out of the tunnel, where's its warm and dry, so they get stupid.
Even with snow tires and AWD I've had a few "moments" there. I always slow down when I exit the tunnel there to see what the roads like, meanwhile the person behind me is tail gate-ing me and being a jerk.
In reply to docwyte :
I hear ya doc! That particular day was in March IIRC. On the way up the mountain it was overcast, but dry. As frequently happens, the other side of the pass was like an entirely different world. We came out of the tunnel, and all we could see was a wall of white. I slowed waaaay down, but once we started going down the hill, the back end slowly slid away. At that point I was barely more than a passenger. I was very fortunate / lucky not to have damaged the car, or ourselves. Funny thing was.....it wasn't my car. A buddy had let me use it for a week, as thanks for watching his dogs!
I had a 96 GT for a few years here in Southeast Michigan. It was still on it's OE Firestones when I got it (used, ~4 yrs old), so I made a point of burning them up before winter. I put on some new BFG Comp T/A VR4s just before the first snow. With an inch or two of snow, I couldn't get out of my driveway, and I never thought of it as actually being uphill. I immediately got some Michelin Arctic Alpins, put a couple bags of salt in the trunk, and it was a very reasonable winter car after that. I got rid of it about 3 or 4 years later, mostly from boredom (and being tired of dealing with manual door locks and windows - pretty much a zero options car.)
That car did leave me stranded once in the summer. The plastic intake manifold split and it puked out all the coolant. That was fixed under a TSB. I don't know how common that was.
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