Does part scarcity concern you?

Current fun cars are a 97 mustang and a Bugeye Sprite...

Mustang has a huge aftermarket and restoration catalogs already. Even if something is nla there will be some solution in aftermarket parts.

The Bugeye...  I think I could legit build one from scratch with how much is being repopped in England, India, and elsewhere... Shipping would break the bank though... Plus many parts are so simple making replacements from scratch wouldn't be bad for some of it.

1994 kbs mk 7 formula 500 racecar...  Well... I made friends with a machine shop owner...  I can weld... it's a racecar, so more about evolution than restoration.  Motor parts for the  Rotax 494 will dry up eventually, so options now would be Rotax 595 or bike motor. They would involve substantial mods to the back half of the car, but I'm an engineer with a welder... 

Plastic shouldn't scare you...  Electronics should.  Ferrari has had huge module availability issues for the last 20 years. Guys pay a mint for people who will diagnose and repair faulty circuit boards and it's a cottage industry. Another example, I have a friend who bought a Cadillac XLR..  look up taillights on ebay... Oof! (They have circuit boards)

In reply to Apexcarver :

With those taillight swill there be people who figure out how to speak sweet nothings to the relevant control unit and thereby allow the light unit to work more traditionally?

Part scarcity is a real problem for three of my cars. Maybe that's why they're all broken right now. Hmmm.

Mercury Cougar: ABS system sucks, parts can't be found, have to swap it out for a non-ABS system which requires some minor ingenuity. When the ABS system acts up, it's tied into the power assist, so you have manual brakes only. Oh, and also front brakes only. Manual front brakes only. Great. (I've driven it like that, it's bad.) Can't get sporty shocks for it anymore either.

Ford Probe: pretty much everything is NLA. Some parts might be available under the Mazda part number, but good luck finding it.

Escort LX-E: I mean, you could find any part for a regular Escort, probably, but given that this one has the GT motor, it has a different bolt pattern, so finding a transmission is way harder. Of course that's the part I need. Well that and maybe a frame straightener, but that's beside the point.

Nissan has given up on hardbody parts.  I can get aftermarket parts for most parts, but I don't want aftermarket electrical stuff.  Fuel injectors are $300 each and aren't even new.  I've been considering a Weber carb conversion or the Holley EFI kit.  

Take away from this thread so far is:  Yes, it's a real problem.

I really like obscure cars, but obscure also means expensive and/or non-existent parts.

I am a huge fan of building a classic Chevy truck - freaking anything you want is a VISA card away.

And I'm not even a GM fan at all.

In reply to SkinnyG (Forum Supporter) :

Well up to the turn of the century (2000 ) internal engine parts for Ford V8 flatheads  and Model A such as Crankshafts and con rods  could only be found in collector's hands and often required  machine work to make them workable. 
Today brand new can be purchased for about what the cost of acquisition used and machine work. 
 

And such it will go for the more popular  cars while the unique and rare cars will have different solutions. 

Currently I don't worry about it. Not sure how many panthers fomoco rolled out but the number is big so spares should be easy. Any The 5 shares most functioning parts with the way more common 3, so keeping that going for a few more years should be easy. With the 80 mustang it wasn't an issue. The 96 q45 may have been an issue for some things but it's no longer my problem. My other car is a soon to be sold VW, so spares are everywhere. Once that is gone I may have to turn in my membership card. Only two cars and both are automatic. I didn't think I was that old yet. 

In reply to barefootskater (Shaun) :

Clearly you need a Pinto cruising wagon.

I daily a 93 Mercedes 400E. Parts availability for most things is pretty good actually, thanks to the internet, but I do have an eye out for extras, just in case.

My main concern is the ignition module though. I don't think I'll be able to adapt an HEI to work on this one. Might have to use a mega-jolt, or go the whole way with a megasquirt conversion, cause it would be cheaper than a super rare ignition module!

03Panther said:

In reply to hybridmomentspass :

Do you have early Buell's, or after HD had controlling interest? I saw my first Buell in Daytona, back in '86. Pretty far out there stuff, at the time. But I always did like odd stuff.

After HD

99 S3

and (2) 08 1125R

The reason I'm in the middle of tearing the drivetrain out of my Sunbeam and replacing it with parts from more common car(s) is due to parts scarcity, which ultimately drives up cost.

Among British cars, I think only Lotuses and a few other obscure makes have less general parts availability than Sunbeam (Alpines). The parts that are still fairly available are suspension bits, like bushes, springs, shocks, and hubs (since the Alpine shares the suspension with the Tiger). But there still aren't a ton of parts out there. I toyed with the idea of rebuilding my Rootes engine and even picked up a spare as a parts donor. But when I figured out the costs still ran into triple what I'll have in a K24/Getrag 260 combo, at <half the horsepower and a 1/4 of the reliability too, it seemed obvious it was time to dump the Rootes bits.

Yet despite the high cost of spares and rarity of them, I can't seem to rid myself of the spare parts I have accumulated, even at low prices. Seems like all the Sunbeam guys are all going the same direction - an engine swap. Though a lot of them are trading one type of rarity (rarely repoped Rootes Group parts) for another (Ford Cologne V6 and one-off vendor parts). So the market for usable spares seems to be almost nil right now. Frustrating, because I know the instant I send this stuff off for scrap, someone will come along with a genuine need.

Anyways, the general answer is yes. I've honestly stopped being interested in cars where the ability to acquire spares is limited. My next project will probably also be Honda powered, use another common gearbox, and try to incorporate as many readily available common suspension bits as possible.

Steve said:

I think with the company that visits these pages, most of you are in the "cars are meant to be driven" camp. But I do think about how uncommon used parts or replacement new parts are becoming for my particular bad habit (85 MR2), and I'd be lying if it wasn't in the back of my mind when I'm out on the road around all the brodozers or saying a prayer to Gods of speed before I try and pop that piece of 80's plastic off a portion of the interior in one piece.

On one hand, I've got this appreciating, cool, 80's door wedge that is nice and cozy in the garage that I can look at every once in a while.

But on the other hand, I've got this nimble, 80's door wedge that is nice and happy out on the backroads, if not a little out of place here in the PNW.

I probably don't drive it enough as I should based on the first fact, but really wish I did based on the second. It's got agreed value coverage, but still, it's not helpful if the parts don't exist.

 

Anyways, for the people who have something even more rare, or maybe on the same level of scarcity (I hestitate to call an 80's Toyota "rare"), put my mind at ease. I'm supposed to drive this damn thing, right?

Yep. Drive it. I also have an '85 MR2 (also in the PNW, incidentally) and have been driving it daily for about 17 years. I also made my living selling MR2 parts until several years ago. Mechanical support is a non-issue, and since they are mostly shared with more common Toyotas, there's nothing especially hard to get. Most hard parts can be had either from the aftermarket or from a dealer willing to at least check availability before they tell you it doesn't exist.

Things that don't actually make the car go are another issue. Parts like c-pillar trim, weatherstrips, and interior trim parts are starting to dry up. Parts cars are a fantastic luxury. If not practical, there are several Facebook groups dedicated to the AW11 and they're decent resources for most parts you can't get through normal retail channels. Facebook is obviously it's own special headache, but unfortunately it's been many years since the two once-excellent MR2 forums have been worth a damn.

Drive it!

1972 Lotus Elan - owned for 35 years, used for a fun weekend/autocross car. Definitely a driver not a show car.  While parts are generally available through specialty suppliers, they are now trending towards restoration more than performance.  Luckily I am not depending on it for daily use, so I can afford downtime while hunting for parts. Unfortunately, no one makes light flywheels for them anymore, the number of good shock absorber manufacturers is shrinking, and where have all the performance oriented 13" tires gone? May have to trade it for something more modern. Or K-swap it? I want to keep driving it, not just look at it.

1993 RX7 FD - owned for 10 years. Some interior parts are NLA, some mechanical parts are getting scarce, and they are just starting to become more desirable as collector cars than as performance fun.  It is all stock now and in very nice shape. Part availability is keeping me from enjoying it because I don't want to have to learn how to rebuild a rotary. Would have been fun when I was younger, but now I have other things I would rather be doing than trying to find good used rotor housings or exhaust manifolds. Sigh. It might have to go too. Is a Cayman as much fun as an FD?

In reply to RevolverRob :

Lotus parts are actually pretty easy because they are parts bin cars, unlike Rootes. That said, an Elan has Imp pedal pads and trunk hinges. The hinges are reproduced for the Lotus, so providing a possibility for the Imp owner that would never have happened if Lotus had picked another part.

last Century ,  I had a Glas 1700 GT ,  , which I bought a rolled over parts car for  as there was no parts available (before internet)

I sold it because if I used it as a driver , dumb stuff would break and I could not fix it in a day or 2,

Glas had its own motor , they were bought by BMW and the last ones had BMW motors.....

and the photo is not my car :) , just one like it .....

In reply to RichardSIA :

That's because of the switch to the bastardized light duty 7lug f250 of the same year. When in question, I always used a 96. It was 99% the same vehicle.

If you don't drive it, it is just an expensive (or not so much) piece of art taking up room.  Drive it, enjoy it, and if the unfortunate happens,  worry about it then.  Drive!  Enjoy!  Repeat!

This has been really interesting reading through the responses here. Seems like I'm not the only one afraid of a headlight switch knob crumbling in their hand, but also with the mindset that that isn't the way to enjoy the ownership of a vehicle. If it fails, it fails, work on a solution then.

I do think it's incredible what can be done these days with 3D printing and the general access to information and online auction sites. Even from when I was last into AW11's, the ability to pop onto eBay and buy a part has improved. Back in the early 00's, no one gave a damn about these cars and RDW Corollas were only just starting to appreciate and could still be found in the junkyard.

I think the balance here I'm trying to achieve is a responsible ownership (i.e. Protecting an investment) and ownership enjoyment (i.e. Running it out to the limiter every once in a while). I imagine there is a point on the graph where those lines intersect, and the long term modification needed to possible keep a car on the road well past parts dry up begin to eat at the valuation. e.g. Wiring in a modern headlight switch because you just had to trash your last one.

But that probably doesn't matter, or I shouldn't let it matter. There are plenty of people out there keeping these cars for time capsule purposes out there, and they have much more time and money than I do to hunt down every last parts car there is for the best possible set of the absolutely perfect OEM pieces to install on their car and then let it sit in the garage.

When I first brought this car home, I felt a great deal of responsibility to keep the car as relatively clean and OEM as I could. Modifying it in a way that could best described as OEM+ from my VW days. Nothing outlandish, everything generally reversible, and nothing that wouldn't look factory. I think that idea has been causing me a hell of a lot of stress. "What will the purists think?!" has crossed my mind too many times. I think it's time to stop that line of thinking and move firmly into the camp of it being a car for myself.

I really appreciate everyone's input, this has been fun to come back to so many constructive comments and anecdotal stories.

Keep the odometers rolling!

My ex wife crashed my 77 celica lb (really light) right front fender, headlight bucket, marker light and I learned that parts availability really sucked for those cars back then.  Since I sold it as a result of being scared to use it for that reason, a pretty serious community has materialized and they've gone through the roof. (Well not through the roof but lets just say, I should have waited 6 years to sell it. )

Apparently Toyota bought back all the pre 78 parts in one fell swoop and disposed of them at one point. Great. 
 

The bright side of that story is that she went on a tiny forum for those cars and told the story and all the parts arrived in the mail, no one would even take payment. Maybe I should have kept that one......

and 1uz swapped it. ;) 

This whole discussion solidifies why I stick to what I have. Most anything domestic "performance" or pickup, besides Chrysler, from the mid-ish 80's, is available aftermarket in some shape.

I can locally get enough body parts from Keystone to build either a s10 or obs FS Chevy. Ford's a little bit tighter but still doable.

Weird engine electrical problems? You can either go back or forward for a solution. Tbi? Either swap to efi/tpi or ls swap it. Trans dies? Go back to a simple turbo350/400 or make a 4l80 work. Can't find something aftermarket? The DIY jy is full of this E36 M3.

Sure, I'm building a pita Ranger with a motor that was last produced in 88, but I've squirreled crap away for almost 30 yrs waiting to do this swap. It dies, I have the parts to do a plug and play v8 swap.

Carbon (Forum Supporter) said:

Apparently Toyota bought back all the pre 78 parts in one fell swoop and disposed of them at one point. Great. 
 

 

I think somebody fed you a line of hooey* there.  Dealerships pay for the parts when they buy them from the distributor (there's a reason I didn't say "manufacturer", but that's a long and boring story).  While Toyota is more forgiving than most in accepting returns from dealers, they have absolutely no interest in buying back old inventory from dealers for any sort of nefarious purpose such as preventing it from making it into the hands of those pesky customers.  They're an efficient organization, not a cruel one, and it serves their image well to have ancient Toyotas out on the road.  In fact, they tend to keep things in production as long as they can, provided there's enough movement on a part to justify it.  Not that many years ago I was selling brand new fenders for FJ40s, and if memory serves, I think even a dash pad for a TE27.  If demand exists, they try to meet it.

*Parts guys, even dealership parts guys, aren't necessarily experts.  Their knowledge typically begins and ends at the parts counter.  Their job is to identify, locate, procure, and sell parts; they are not versed in the hidden machinations and innermost secrets of the manufacturer's soul. That doesn't prevent them from telling customers what they think is happening, or maybe saying something in jest that a too-trusting customer takes as gospel because "Toyota told me".  I heard a whole lot of conjecture in my time at the dealership, on both sides of the counter, and very little of it was anywhere close to the truth.

That said, nice Celica!  I know how you feel.  I built a full-house 2T-G and stumbled into a TA13 Carina a few years later, and didn't have the presence of mind to abort the ugly duckling the 2T-G was slated for and slot it into the Carina instead.  Both are gone now.  I'll likely never see another example of either.

In reply to DarkMonohue :

Well said.  I'm not so sure I would be as diplomatic about refuting internet nonsense.  
I can't believe how easily some people are fooled. Just because they can't get every part at their local dealership they think it's all a scam?  

Engine and mechanical stuff I am not as worried with the Honda stuff.

Interior bits and various obscure plastic pieces from the Integra I am mostly worried about b/c it is the stuff that people seem to throw away when they do motor swaps. Stuff like spark plug clips, etc that is all NLA. 

I also need to do a better job of not losing those pieces too.

In reply to aw614 :

The really valuable Mustang parts are the ones people threw away. Thermactor pumps.  Exhaust manifolds.