Does this car exist?

In reply to SSATB:

On a budget front of sub $10k, '05-6 Saturn Ion Redlines with the Comp package(mechanical atb, and a few other things) checks every one of your boxes. Cobalt SSTC Sedan, and the FI/FO ST twins(although lacking a mechanical ATB) fit your requirements as well. Granted, all of those are fwd, but without going bmw, you're kinda sunk.

Ford Focus? I think you could even get the SVT as a 5-door hatch at one point.

Mike wrote: It has a good rep, not that I'd know.

I do know and I would own another 190 16v. I also like my RX-8, try driving one before knocking the lack of torque.

admc58 wrote: Lexus IS300.

Came here to say this. Especially with figs rack bushings.

mad_machine wrote:

SSATB wrote: I'm dreaming. I wish there was a lightweight, 4door car with great steering & transmission. It doesn't have to be rwd. Regarding BMWs, honestly, out of all BMWs I've driven, including an e46 330i, e36/e46 M3, F30, e30 318i, only the e46 ZHP 330i's steering was good enough to be memorable. Have never driven an e30 M3.

I find it odd that only ZHP had memorable steering.. especially over the better performing E46 M3

IIRC, it has an even quicker ratio than the E46 M3.

Evo 9.

GTO?

BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

mad_machine wrote: I find it odd that only ZHP had memorable steering.. especially over the better performing E46 M3

z31maniac wrote:IIRC, it has an even quicker ratio than the E46 M3.

The main reason a ZHP rack is superior to even the M3 rack is because its torsion bar is significantly beefier than most other BMW racks. That combined with its power assist being just right makes it the ultimate BMW rack that can be swapped into many BMWs pre-2005. Increase in feedback, decrease in slack and the rack being quicker all makes it truly memorable and much easier to catch a slide with. It was a revelation.

gearheadE30 wrote: E30 with an e36 rack.

yamaha wrote: '05-6 Saturn Ion Redlines with the Comp package(mechanical atb, and a few other things)...Cobalt SSTC Sedan, and the FI/FO ST twins(although lacking a mechanical ATB) fit your requirements as well.

I wish I was still in the U.S. For now I would pinch an ion redline comp or a Cobalt SS sedan without a second thought. I would also endeavor to build the following:

1) 4-door e30 325i, m30 swap, e46 ZHP rack, wavetrac diff, re-valved bilstein coilovers.

2) Z3 M Coupe, S65 + 6spd swap, wavetrac diff, re-valved bilstein coilovers (yes i would spend all the money it takes to have this car :drool:)

WonkoTheSane wrote: Just out of curiosity, have you actually driven an Rx-8, or are you using internet jokes about torques to discard it?

I have. I've been in love with one ever since I did in 2007. I love its funky interior and the suicide doors. The power delivery and the character of the car, the shifter, the steering.

In my situation, I have 2-3 passengers in my car many times a week. The car is not quick by any means with 4 people in it unless you keep wringing the motor. That and its more expensive to run than most cars in its performance class, like an e36 328i, which actually gets decent mpg and has great usable torque. The shifter and steering on the RX8, however, is unmatched. What a car it could've been.

SSATB wrote:

WonkoTheSane wrote: Just out of curiosity, have you actually driven an Rx-8, or are you using internet jokes about torques to discard it?

I have. I've been in love with one ever since I did in 2007. I love its funky interior and the suicide doors. The power delivery and the character of the car, the shifter, the steering. In my situation, I have 2-3 passengers in my car many times a week. The car is not quick by any means with 4 people in it unless you keep wringing the motor. That and its more expensive to run than most cars in its performance class, like an e36 328i, which actually gets decent mpg and has great usable torque. The shifter and steering on the RX8, however, is unmatched. What a car it could've been.

In that case:

It's been scienced out, does NOT change the balance of the car, is reliable, and gets decent fuel mileage if you leave the engine stock (which would be plenty of power/torque), and can be driven like grandma's car if you want, but wont' care that there's 4 passengers in the car, either.

sesto elemento wrote:

admc58 wrote: Lexus IS300.

Came here to say this. Especially with figs rack bushings.

Nice car but OP wants <1320kg, IS300 is more like 1500kg.

Yeah but that requirement throws the whole thing straight into fantasyland so im pretty sure everyone is ignoring it.

Vigo wrote: Yeah but that requirement throws the whole thing straight into fantasyland so im pretty sure everyone is ignoring it.

Not true. As posted, e30 BMWs are within that curb-weight range. My solution is actually an e30, 325i sedan with an M52TUB28 swap and a wavetrac dif. A ZHP rack swap would complete the picture but alas, I'm not in the U.S. anymore.

No. You get good steering and a crap trans or crap steering and a good trans.

Pretty much a requirement for good steering is mid- or rear-engine design, and I don't think it's actually possible to make one that shifts worth a damn.

It sure does, I had one. E46 ZHP

MKv MKvi or MKvii GTI tick all the boxes, the DSG is awesome too

SSATB wrote:

Vigo wrote: Yeah but that requirement throws the whole thing straight into fantasyland so im pretty sure everyone is ignoring it.

Not true. As posted, e30 BMWs are within that curb-weight range. My solution is actually an e30, 325i sedan with an M52TUB28 swap and a wavetrac dif. A ZHP rack swap would complete the picture but alas, I'm not in the U.S. anymore.

I guess you're right. I forgot that we were 'leaving price aside' which means we can bench race $15k builds of $3k cars you couldn't sell for $5k afterwards, as long as it fits the criteria!

In reply to Vigo:

Your point would be valid if this thread was seeking advice on whether a build makes sense or not. To a car flipper, few builds would make sense. There's nothing wrong with being that guy. It's more sensible to buy pre-built cars you fancy, that others have already spent the money on. But I want to spend money on building a car I want to keep for a long time. It's like that with everything I have. Unless I've had it for a while, I don't think it's quite mine yet. Creating something, setting yourself apart from others, looking forward to something...These things are what anyone lives for

Knurled wrote: No. You get good steering and a crap trans or crap steering and a good trans.

True for most cars, though there do exist cars like the S2000, ITR-DC2, the RX8, the 330i ZHP, the Cayman, current gen 911s and B/K-series swapped, MK1 Elises and most probably the ND MX-5.

The purpose of this thread was brain storming. Most people have been very helpful. Thank you! To summarize, no one can say that out of the following list of proposed, stock sedans, any of them have less-than-reasonably-impressive steering or shifting:

E90 M3, 330i ZHP, RX8, 128i, MKV+ GTI