Domestic engine question...

5.0 coyote because of hp/displacement.

LS because of $/hp.

SRT 6.2L Supercharged because of berkeley you, your tire budget, your NHRA rules and your Prius.

Goof article on the differences between the Coyote and the LS. vroom

Basically, making a cheap Coyote powerhouse is a lesson in futility where building an LS powerhouse cheaply not hard. Also, the Coyote is 5" wider and 20lbs heavier than the LS. No wonder the LS is so easily stuffed into EVERYTHING. an extra 50hp and 100ftlbs of torque make that a no-brainer.

In reply to Chadeux:

Shut your dirty pirate whore mouth. I've been clean and neon free for almost 4 years. I want another clean DOHC coupe so bad. Thankfully, or unfortunately, depending on perspective, they have all been neglected to death or have returned to the earth around here.

(Rocking in the corner)"My Honda always works, my Honda always works."

im going with 60 degree V6 from GM.

You can get a 3900 that is tiny compared to most v6's that makes about 250 hp stock.

I put a 3400 in my Chumpcar. Weighs 70 pounds more than the NA rotary that came out.

Outside of displacement limited racing or registration/insurance classes, output per displacement is an absolutely meaningless 'measure' of an engine in the real world, and I couldn't care less about it.

In the real world I do find output per physical size interesting, and at least somewhat more useful. But to me the most impressive is output vs fuel economy. So not only is the 6.2L GM physically much smaller than the Coyote, but in equivalent applications (from full-size trucks to pony cars) it makes more power and more torque, yet also gets the same or better fuel economy.

Unfortunately you can't compare turbo (i.e. "Eco"Boost) engines directly to equivalent output naturally aspirated engines using EPA ratings though, as the evidence seems to indicate that the turbo engines get better economy under the specified laboratory test conditions than in the real world when compared to their naturally aspirated counterparts.

Bobzilla wrote: Goof article on the differences between the Coyote and the LS. vroom Basically, making a cheap Coyote powerhouse is a lesson in futility where building an LS powerhouse cheaply not hard. Also, the Coyote is 5" wider and 20lbs heavier than the LS. No wonder the LS is so easily stuffed into EVERYTHING. an extra 50hp and 100ftlbs of torque make that a no-brainer.

What I find interesting about that article alludes to what everyone already knows. If the Coyote had a tad more displacement it would kill the LS and it is easier to tune to boot. Not to mention it isn't as far along in the development cycle as the LS is. But because of its physical size, you have to be careful what you plan to use it in.

I like the LS. I mean it is overdone, as common as McDonald's restaurants, and sounds, well, like an LS (personal preference they all sound the same, I want something that sounds unique. Like the Audi 40V right before the timing chains snap.) It makes great power for little money and in a tiny package. It is THE current Hot Rod package.

Both of those builds are WAY overpriced for what they did. $3k for a 5.0 truck motor? LKQ is selling them for $1900 all day. You could have knocked quite a bit off of the GM build too.

When you can go to the Ford Performance parts catalog and purchase an engine and bolt on supercharger and get almost 1000 hp out of 5 liters of displacement and runs on pump gas. That is just amazing.

The LS is the best now. Hands down. But I believe we are seeing its swan song. Because those are crazy numbers from less displacement for similar money (LS9 is $26k vs $25k for the 5.0 and Supercharger).

Either way, great time to be a car guy.

Chadeux wrote: The Neon engine. Either in 2.0 twin cam or SRT4 flavor.

Even in single cam form. It's sad that 20+ years later we're not getting cheap economy cars with more power. My SOHC neon with some cheap/simple mods (muffler, ECU, pulley, AT throttle body and junkyard intake) ran in the upper 14s at the strip. Once I added more mods it was even more silly. Hello 7800rpm!

People never believed me and spent forever looking for the nitrous. lol.

In reply to Blaise: I recollect reading somewhere that the stock SRT4 block could easily handle 6-700 hp...

Quite a motor.

Recon1342 wrote: In reply to Blaise: I recollect reading somewhere that the stock SRT4 block could easily handle 6-700 hp... Quite a motor.

The GM Ecotecs could make over 900....

I recall someone sending me the book on how to do that, but I can't find it in my files here.

I like that the argument about strength seems to be revolving around which motor can make 1000 hp reliably. Those kinds of numbers were crazy talk just a few years ago.

I just saw an article about a saleen explorer the other day on Jalopnik (the horror!) and it made like 281 hp from a supercharged v8. That's modern v6 Camry levels of horsepower. This is a golden time for horsepower indeed.

I'm going to go with the Offy.

It was restricted on boost and still made 770 bhp. Not bad for a 4 Cylinder.

In reply to Brian:

You know if your honda always works that means you can get a neon with no worries...

There's actually a 1st gen 2 door for sale near me and I'm resisting the urge to see if it's a stick and how much they want for it.

Blaise wrote:

Chadeux wrote: The Neon engine. Either in 2.0 twin cam or SRT4 flavor.

Even in single cam form. It's sad that 20+ years later we're not getting cheap economy cars with more power. My SOHC neon with some cheap/simple mods (muffler, ECU, pulley, AT throttle body and junkyard intake) ran in the upper 14s at the strip. Once I added more mods it was even more silly. Hello 7800rpm! People never believed me and spent forever looking for the nitrous. lol.

Very true. Nissan's new $26k turbo Sentra just ran stock Neon numbers in the first timeslip i saw. I remember racing a 500 Abarth in my STOCK sohc/5spd neon and running even.

Honestly, i think 1g Neons are the main reason i never went too crazy over NA/NB Miatas. They're about the same size, faster, infinitely more useful as an everyday car, get better mpg, and don't really fall behind until you start talking about actual road courses. And from what i've seen on youtube, spec neons weren't really much slower than spec miatas either. Id love to see some times on the same tracks (without doing actual research..).

chaparral wrote: GM LS/LT V8.

Can't lump the LS together with the LT.

The LT is a SBC with aluminum heads. The LS is a completely new block design.

this question can also be old tech Vs. new, Do you know why NASCAR wrote rules about Bore and stroke Limits, It isn't just to keep them at 350 CI, It's to keep 327 cranks out of 400 blocks, you could make 600hp with a 195 cc intake port 40 years ago. when that was something.

In reply to SVreX:

I think he meant Gen V not Gen II.

alfadriver wrote:

RevRico wrote: Developed in Europe

Tangent editorial. I hate those engines. Not the 1.0l listed, but the European ones. Can't be specific in why, but I don't like them.

FlightService said: The LS is the best now. Hands down. But I believe we are seeing its swan song.

Vehemently disagree. Perhaps the Coyote will catch or surpass the LSx in terms of the upper limits of its capabilities, but as far as an everyman's, grassroots performance motor goes the LSX will always reign supreme. We've been over most of this, but here goes:

-It fits places a Coyote just never will, therefore opening the platform up to a much larger segment of enthusiasts. You can fit an LS damn near anywhere, they're tiny for the power they can produce. I should have snapped a pic of the Miata motor I had before I sold it to Ross next to my LS1 - damn close in all dimensions but width.

-There will never be as many available. The GM motor has a 20 year headstart on production, in which they dumped them into nearly every single large truck or SUV coming off the line, in addition to Vetted, F Bodies, and the like. The Coyote has what, Mustangs and trucks? And even in those applications it is increasingly shoved aside for the Ecoboost mills. There will never be as many Coyotes available for the picking.

-That 20 year headstart goes for the aftermarket as well. That's a lot of used parts floating around out there on Craigslist and at swap meets, and what you can't snag used for dirt cheap is available new in 1000 different variations from Summit or Jegs.

Yes, the LS platform is common, it's boring, overplayed, but there are damn good reasons for that. It's the modern SBC. Its the ultimate grassroots performance platform now and for the foreseeable future. You can go to any junkyard, find one, pull it, stick it in pretty much any project car, and 400++ perfectly street-able, reliable horsepower is no more than a cam and tune away from even the lowliest variant.

Trans_Maro wrote: In reply to tuna55: Don't forget the unicorn that is the 383 stroker. In chevy land, putting a 400 crank in a 350 block is somehow better than just building a 400.

Simese bores and steam holes is the answer to this. The 400 block and head design with the simese bores necessitated steam holes. The 400 is a great low rpm torque making big car or truck motor but the issues I note above cause issues in reliability when you start to spin them up in the rpm range for extended periods of time.

My engineering background and a lack of money back in the day lead me to take a look at the actual physics of the load paths in every small block offered and the top of the heap in terms of durability was the 302 followed by the 327. The 400 was pretty far down on the list and then add in the cooling issues and it is not a good starting point for a dollar per hp build.

In reply to Furious_E:

That's a very well written case for the LSX.