Double Check your Jackstands!!!!

novaderrik wrote:

Swank Force One wrote: In reply to 4cylndrfury: I wouldnt worry about it much... They didnt explode or anything, but for whatever reason, each of them ended up with a leg that was starting to buckle, which kept them from standing perfectly level. Still not sure what the issue was.

which style of stands are they? are they the cheap craptastic 3 leggers that are made out of a piece of pipe that is split to form the 3 legs and with a pin to hold the pad at a certain height? if so, those are junk.

this is the set...

Vigo wrote:

So I will take from you the lesson that its unsafe to jack up any car at any time using any equipment because there is a small possibility something might go wrong.

That's basically correct. Thinking like that will lead you to the safest way to pick up anything.

Agreed. Even with my scissor lift - which I was able to justify the $1600 cost after a couple of frightening close-calls with jack-stands when lifting MINIs - I double and triple check everything before getting under it. There are three "lock" settings that take the load off the hydraulics. I'm not really comfortable unless I get put the car on one of those and I definitely won't get under the middle of the car (literally "inside" the lift) unless it's locked.

Basically, if you're working alone most of the time (I live alone, so 99.9% of my wrenching is done solo) you have to be extra dilligent. If something bad were to happen, the chances of anyone being able to hear screams for help are slim and it's not always practical for me to keep my cell phone on me while I'm working.

It's not so much that I'm afraid of dieing, but a painful death I'd like to avoid.

slefain wrote: I toss the wheels under the car as well, but I've been thinking of building some wood blocks for extra measure. Maybe layer up some 2x12s just to toss under the car. I admit, one of my biggest fears is being trapped under a car. I don't want to go out trying to dig through concrete with my fingernails.

We live in a log home, so had some extra D logs left over after having done some repairs. I cut some of them up just for this reason.

Ian F wrote:

Vigo wrote:

So I will take from you the lesson that its unsafe to jack up any car at any time using any equipment because there is a small possibility something might go wrong.

That's basically correct. Thinking like that will lead you to the safest way to pick up anything.

Agreed. Even with my scissor lift - which I was able to justify the $1600 cost after a couple of frightening close-calls with jack-stands when lifting MINIs - I double and triple check everything before getting under it. There are three "lock" settings that take the load off the hydraulics. I'm not really comfortable unless I get put the car on one of those and I definitely won't get under the middle of the car (literally "inside" the lift) unless it's locked. Basically, if you're working alone most of the time (I live alone, so 99.9% of my wrenching is done solo) you have to be extra dilligent. If something bad were to happen, the chances of anyone being able to hear screams for help are slim and it's not always practical for me to keep my cell phone on me while I'm working. It's not so much that I'm afraid of dieing, but a painful death I'd like to avoid.

I had a hydraulic line blow on my midrise with my mr2 on it...thankfully the lock worked and all I had was a mess of fluid to clean up and a line to replace.

Vigo wrote:

So I will take from you the lesson that its unsafe to jack up any car at any time using any equipment because there is a small possibility something might go wrong.

That's basically correct. Thinking like that will lead you to the safest way to pick up anything. My original point about your jack was lateral strength. Your point was that you dont even have to get under the excursion to put jackstands under it, but when a jack fails sideways you dont have to START under it to end up under it (pause for emphasis..) or to get hurt in some other way. In my previous example where my (light) car fell off four jackstands onto a pair of wheels, it moved sideways over 2 feet (you might call it an arm's length..). Luckily it moved sideways AWAY from my friend who was working in the wheelwell and only got a gash on his head. If it had fallen in his direction he would have been more injured in spite of the fact that the car did not go all the way to the ground and he was not 'under' it. My point here, as before, is that when a car is lifted any substantial height off the ground it can move more than an arm's length in any direction on the way down. Therefore, unless you place your jackstands with something other than a part of your body, you are in danger at some point. You just are. So yes, your summary of my viewpoint is correct.

you just seem like someone that has never worked on 4wd trucks. My truck could fall off a jackstand with me laying under it and unless I was under an axle housing I'd be ok. I fit under the truck easily without jacking it up. You don't have to lay down or look underneat to put jackstands under an excursion. The frame is right under the pinch weld under the doors. you just put them there.
The truck could fall 2 feet in one direction or 2 feet in another and it might knock me backwards as I was kneeling next to it, but its not going to "fall" on me. and I don't jack it up more than just enough to get the tires off since I can lay under it without jacking it up. so its highly unlikely it would fall a foot or two laterally, since the tires would hit almost immediately.

Thats been my point all along. Your lessons about jack safety might be somewhat prudent, if a little overcautious to the point of paranoia, if I had a slammed miata I had to lift up 16" to work under. But I'm talking about working on a 4x4 truck with 33" tires on it. Its a different world. I do work on smaller cars too, but even then I'm not going to put it up and work under it without it securely sitting on jackstands. But the point is that your inital safety lecture was that an excursion is too heavy to lift on a jack rated to lift it, so that argument doesn't even apply to smaller cars.

I guess no one can win an argument about safety on an internet forum, as nothing is ever safe enough to actually do if its something someone else has proposed on the internet. I'm sure I should have learned that before, if not on here than on any of the other half dozen I frequent, but the reality is that part of working on things involves risk. If you are that scared of the danger of something falling on you, you should probably let a shop do all your maintenance for you and then you don't have to worry about it. Familiarity may breed contempt, but I have a lot of experience working with jacks and jackstands and so far so good. Maybe you should go onto one of the jetta forums and give them a good tongue lashing about safety to get it out of your system?

Even if your jackstands are solid, the surface you put them on might not be.

I was changing a tire on a very hot day in my apartment's parking lot. They had a blacktop surface- it was not enough that the parking lot got a bit soft and the jack dug into the surface enough to slip and tip the car off.

That only happened once (and it was above 100 degrees) but it certainly woke me up quite well.

My rule on jackstands- actively try to remove the vehicle from them before hopping under it, and Always Always put something tall (a tire, floor jack, cinderblock) underneath your work area just in case.

Even then, I'm still leery of jackstands. I can't wait for the day that I can afford a lift in the garage.

andrave wrote:

Vigo wrote:

So I will take from you the lesson that its unsafe to jack up any car at any time using any equipment because there is a small possibility something might go wrong.

That's basically correct. Thinking like that will lead you to the safest way to pick up anything. My original point about your jack was lateral strength. Your point was that you dont even have to get under the excursion to put jackstands under it, but when a jack fails sideways you dont have to START under it to end up under it (pause for emphasis..) or to get hurt in some other way. In my previous example where my (light) car fell off four jackstands onto a pair of wheels, it moved sideways over 2 feet (you might call it an arm's length..). Luckily it moved sideways AWAY from my friend who was working in the wheelwell and only got a gash on his head. If it had fallen in his direction he would have been more injured in spite of the fact that the car did not go all the way to the ground and he was not 'under' it. My point here, as before, is that when a car is lifted any substantial height off the ground it can move more than an arm's length in any direction on the way down. Therefore, unless you place your jackstands with something other than a part of your body, you are in danger at some point. You just are. So yes, your summary of my viewpoint is correct.

you just seem like someone that has never worked on 4wd trucks. My truck could fall off a jackstand with me laying under it and unless I was under an axle housing I'd be ok. I fit under the truck easily without jacking it up. You don't have to lay down or look underneat to put jackstands under an excursion. The frame is right under the pinch weld under the doors. you just put them there. The truck could fall 2 feet in one direction or 2 feet in another and it might knock me backwards as I was kneeling next to it, but its not going to "fall" on me. and I don't jack it up more than just enough to get the tires off since I can lay under it without jacking it up. so its highly unlikely it would fall a foot or two laterally, since the tires would hit almost immediately. Thats been my point all along. Your lessons about jack safety might be somewhat prudent, if a little overcautious to the point of paranoia, if I had a slammed miata I had to lift up 16" to work under. But I'm talking about working on a 4x4 truck with 33" tires on it. Its a different world. I do work on smaller cars too, but even then I'm not going to put it up and work under it without it securely sitting on jackstands. But the point is that your inital safety lecture was that an excursion is too heavy to lift on a jack rated to lift it, so that argument doesn't even apply to smaller cars. I guess no one can win an argument about safety on an internet forum, as nothing is ever safe enough to actually do if its something someone else has proposed on the internet. I'm sure I should have learned that before, if not on here than on any of the other half dozen I frequent, but the reality is that part of working on things involves risk. If you are that scared of the danger of something falling on you, you should probably let a shop do all your maintenance for you and then you don't have to worry about it. Familiarity may breed contempt, but I have a lot of experience working with jacks and jackstands and so far so good. Maybe you should go onto one of the jetta forums and give them a good tongue lashing about safety to get it out of your system?

you ever do any work underneath it when you have one or more wheels off? i do stuff like that all the time, and if it falls the wheel won't be there to stop it..

Just remember that people get killed using lifts as well....

novaderrik wrote: you ever do any work underneath it when you have one or more wheels off? i do stuff like that all the time, and if it falls the wheel won't be there to stop it..

that's why you slide the wheel under the car with you

wbjones wrote:

novaderrik wrote: you ever do any work underneath it when you have one or more wheels off? i do stuff like that all the time, and if it falls the wheel won't be there to stop it..

that's why you slide the wheel under the car with you

i don't- if i'm under the car doing something, i need room to maneuver around.