Drivers Needed! Bench Racing Grudge Match

Ok bench racers, start your engines!

I've been going through the new Chumpcar rules (2014-2017) and looking at some different options. I've selected a few that seem interesting to me and am curious what the GRM collective thinks. FYI, I don't know if I'll actually end up starting a chump project, but it's a possibility. Many of you might notice that these cars seem well beyond the $500 limit, but they have been given fixed prices in the initial rule set that would allow them to run with the listed modifications (assume they have beat-to-hell bodies and no titles ). Here's what's on the starting grid - what'll end up taking the checker?

Ground rules:
- All cars will be stripped to the max extent possible
- All cars would have good racing brakes free of budget implications
- All pit stops are a mandatory 5 minute minimum stop
- Driver changes are required after a maximum of 2 hrs
- Races are between 7 and 24 hrs in length

1. 1996-1998 Mustang GT, 5-speed (T-45), Lincoln Mk VIII swap (essentially a '96-'98 Cobra engine). Swap is very straightforward and uses the OEM Mustang harness and ECU with only very minor modifications. Car would put down ~280 hp at the wheels and similar torques. Car would have ~$75 left over in the 'budget' for other bolt-ons. Major disadvantage is a 15.4 gal OEM fuel tank size. This can be upgraded to a 17 gal fuel cell max., but I imagine it will still run out of fuel long before the optimum 2 hr stint.

2. MN12 Thunderbird/Cougar, Lincoln Mk VIII swap, 1997 F150 5-speed transmission, same power/torque as above. Would have between $100 and $0 remaining for other parts depending on what year the original chassis is. Does have a decent independent rear suspension, also has a much larger (18 gal) fuel tank, which can be upgraded to a 22 gal fuel cell under the rules.

3. 1992-1996 Lexus SC300, 2JZ-GE engine and 5-speed trans (OEM drivetrain). Would make maybe 190 hp and torques at the wheels. Would have $100 available for additional parts. Also has a huge OEM tank (20 gal), which could be upgraded to the 22 gal fuel cell. Would almost certainly make it to a 2 hr driver change without stopping for fuel. Has the advantage of being essentially all OEM in terms of the drivetrain and wiring.

Personally, I'm leaning towards the SC300 as the 'slow but steady' car of the list. I like that it would be all OEM in terms of wiring and drivetrain, but the power to weight ratio is not the greatest, even by chumpcar standards.

Anyway, interested to hear what you guys think.

As a side note, I think a well-prepped integra, miata, or e30 could give these cars a run for their money in an endurance race, but I've been driving momentum cars my whole life, and I was far more interested in building a cheap "high" hp car in this particular though experiment.

I like option 3. It's not high power, but it is simple and durable. The other options are not bad though. Depends how much you trust your work to be completely headache free. Would you have the option to take the car on a 4-hour shakedown at the track before racing?

Yeah, I definitely agree that simple and durable is key to cheapo endurance racing. For any of the cars I would probably run a few HPDEs before hand. 4 hrs of non-stop shakedown would probably be tougher to arrange though. I could probably get about 2-3 hrs with 1-3 minute stops every 20 minutes.

did they make all pit stops mandatory 5 mins, or just if you start pouring in gas like the old rules?

anyways, i don't think any Mustangs or Thunderbirds have ever won a race, but a 4 cylinder Fox notch did pretty ok at BIR and a couple of other tracks in the midwest over the last couple of years, mostly because of the ability to actually run the full 2 hours on a tank of gas and lighter weight of the 4 cylinders compared to even a 5.0 V8, never mind a huge honking mod motor up over the front wheels...

i don't know about the Lexus, because they aren't on my radar and honestly i know nothing about them.. but the ability to run the full 2 hours without running out of gas and the stockish drivetrain would make me tend to lean towards that one..

but what do i know- i've never raced and i'm building a Neon...

You're right that the pit stops are only timed when adding fuel. Since you can do both driver change and fuel in the same stop, it's obviously still an advantage if you can last the full 2 hrs, as you noted.

Here are the new rules (I think they're the same as before for the pit stops):

"8.2.2. Each pit stop for fuel shall be a timed pit stop. The minimum time required per stop is five (5) minutes.
8.2.2.1. Vehicles will be timed in and timed out of the pits. Vehicles leaving early will receive an additional 5 minute stop-and-go penalty for the first offense. A second offense will result in a trip to the “Penalty Box” for discussion with ChumpCar officials.
8.2.2.2. Pit stops where fuel is not added to the car shall not be considered a timed pit stop."

BTW, the Neons seem to be a popular choice in chump. What's their fuel tank capacity?

95's with the steel tank hold 11.2 gallons, 96 and newer with the plastic tanks hold 12.5 gallons- which means a whole lot of extra potential laps..

i've got the steel tank- looking for a plastic tank...

Notwithstanding the truth about big v8 pony are not winning, my only thought is that the engine swapped options have the advantage because of your statement about chassis condition to qualify. If the car you are running is beat to heck with no title I think it is safe to say service wasn't a priority where it may have been for the less sporty driverrain donor car.

I just threw out a plastic tank. Lol. I say jist get the Lincoln mk8 and screw the swap. But inwould go with tbird. Gotta get creatove on weoght redux tho. They are heavy pigs

A Mark VII has a 22 gallon fuel tank from the factory.

Got holesaw?

The mustang will be the lightest chassis if I am not mistaken. That said, the mod motor can be a real gas hog. Another point of concern is weight distrubition. My 97 cobra (what you are basically looking to build) is really nose heavy. Can be made to work though.

How much weight reduction can you get away with? I am more familiar with LeMons rules than Chump... The MkVII might be the answer...

Option 4, recreate the sick gut gaguar(Metro + sho drivetrain)

Think about tire wear too. I'm thinking you're looking at cars that are too heavy. If I was looking at cars for lechump I'd be trying to find something with an on track weight under 2000 lbs able to fit at least 225 tires on it.

That said, the SC300 stands to loose about 400 pounds from just removing the factory seats.

A couple of points. First, the car can be minty brand spanking new looking and driving with brand new everything (OEM). It does not affect the value.

2) Mustangs have done very well in crap can racing. A cougar has won overall a few times. I know of at least 1 v8 mustang that has podiumed a few times

3) V8s are blow-uppy alot in crap can racing.

4) Rotary. Becuase Racecar. (2nd gen RX7 turbo is valued at $400.00. Use the $100 left over for stiff springs (only $80.00 for the entire car).

Rob R.

wvumtnbkr wrote: 4) Rotary. Becuase Racecar. (2nd gen RX7 turbo is valued at $400.00. Use the $100 left over for stiff springs (only $80.00 for the entire car). Rob R.

But wouldnt you need to stop every half hour for fuel?

its got about a 16 gallon tank (upgradeable to 18 with a fuel cell - no value add). With our NA, we get about 6 gallons per hour. With the Turbo, I would estimate that will go uo to about 7 to 7.5 gallons per hour. I think it can be done.

I'd consider a plain jane 4.6l Crown Vic motor in the Mustang...

I thought Turbo Rotaries were boom-tastic?

Yeah, I know the people running Lemons with the swampen-cougar were used to having to swap engines overnight, but that was a 302, the mod motors might be a different beast...

Whatabouta P-71?

Turbo rotaries are just fine if you don't try to up the boost or do something dumb.

They get a bad rap from people installing crappy engine management (manual boost controllers, piggy backs, etc) and upping the boost to 12 psi. The issue is you can run out of injector before that.

I gots 140,000 miles on mine.

p-71 are heavy and don't handle that well compared to an E30 or miata or E36.

Rob R.

wvumtnbkr wrote: its got about a 16 gallon tank (upgradeable to 18 with a fuel cell - no value add). With our NA, we get about 6 gallons per hour. With the Turbo, I would estimate that will go uo to about 7 to 7.5 gallons per hour. I think it can be done.

Whoa, thats way less than I would expect. I guess I only know sprint race fuel consumption rates and I guess enduro racing rates are less.

I was more thinking about heat management in regards to endurance racing.

I could be WAY off on the Turbo motor (I know I am right on with the NA). Our sprint rate would be the same.

We basically drive flat out. Becuase that is how we drive. Flat out.

Rob R.

Apexcarver wrote: I was more thinking about heat management in regards to endurance racing.

Thats what hole saws and ducting are for! If you can do it with hand tools, it is free (except materials)

Rob R.

Jaxmadine wrote: I say jist get the Lincoln mk8 and screw the swap.

I thought about this a lot. The big issue is that there isn't enough room in the specified budget to swap out the air ride for shocks/springs. Running a 300 hp land yacht around a road course on air ride sounds scary as hell. Probably fun too, until something goes terribly wrong, haha.

The_Jed wrote: A Mark VII has a 22 gallon fuel tank from the factory.

Thought about this a little as well. Maybe I should revisit that. I like the mod motor because the Lincoln version makes so much power right out of the box and it's all aluminum. The later chassis are a little better in terms of suspension design too, but maybe it's better to stick with something simple like the Mk VII - I'll give it some thought.