Driving in snow questions?

Is driving a fwd car in snow better with a manual transmission or automatic?

The reason I ask this, is because I own a 2005 corolla and its a pain in the ass in wet and in snow. I blame the drive-by-wire system because it seems too sensitive to me, like the car jumps from every stop, and one wheel loses traction in the rain. I briefly had a lumina and it didn't seem to do that, the gas pedal was more linear.

Now, does a manual transmission offer advantages in snow? Would having a throttle cable and manual transmission be the best combo?

I have zero problems with my manual 2011 Elantra, of course snow tires help

RWD for the win.

For me FWD is dangerous in the snow. I simply can not do it.

I guess that comes from having a second gen f-body as my first car.

To your question I would rather have a clutch.

Sounds like the throttle map is your enemy. Will it let you start in 2nd rather than D? That often helps with wheelspin in low traction.

I can drive both FWD and RWD in th snow. It's just a matter of remembering which end is going to wash out first.

@Duke

do you think its easier in snow with stick or auto?

I like a manual for the snow. easier to control the torque regardless of which wheels are getting it. DBW is evil in all situations. I would rather have rear drive, but hard to get unless you want a truck or are going to sacrifice a nice older car to the salt.

Pros and cons as far as transmissions go. I am starting my third winter with my 2011 Fiesta with Powershift. No problems. I drove manuals before. FWD has many advantages in the snow due to the superior traction. Of course four snow tires are always a big help.

I have RWD manual, RWD auto, FWD auto, and FWD manual vehicles. All have snow tires and I adjust my driving style accordingly.The auto equipped Scion xB will light up the front right tire easily in the wet or snow, and it's the least powerful vehicle we own. If conditions are dicey I prefer a manual transmission and FWD.

I would say that the average driver will have an easier time driving in the snow with an auto. Most people dump the clutch too hard all the time, but when there is low adhesion, the tires will slip before the clutch does.

Now that being said, if you adjust your driving style, you can reach the same result with a stick. And the stick lets you do some things that an auto will not. For example, it's much easier to rock the car to get out of snow with a stick then with an auto.

I will add that a lot of modern cars seem to have a non-linear gas pedal with a lot of go early in pedal travel. I guess it gives the illusion that the car has more power than it really has when you're using only partial throttle. YMMV

fanfoy wrote: I will add that a lot of modern cars seem to have a non-linear gas pedal with a lot of go early in pedal travel. I guess it gives the illusion that the car has more power than it really has when you're using only partial throttle. YMMV

yeah that's the problem with my 2005 corolla, it makes it feel peppy but that's my problem. when I need gentleness it doesn't give it.

nicksta43 wrote: RWD for the win. For me FWD is dangerous in the snow. I simply can not do it. I guess that comes from having a second gen f-body as my first car. To your question I would rather have a clutch.

No offense but this sounds like the typical GRM dogma. I'll take FWD and proper tires over RWD and proper tires any day of the week in inclement weather.

Yeah, dry, warm and sticky tires ........sure I'll take RWD but when it's nasty, give me FWD

fanfoy wrote: And the stick lets you do some things that an auto will not. For example, it's much easier to rock the car to get out of snow with a stick then with an auto.

Mmmm....no. Maybe if the shifter is column mounted, but a floor shift auto is way easier to zip between forward and reverse than any stick shift I've owned.

Snow tires for all corners, and make 'em skinny, inflate properly... says the guy with an AWD Legacy and fat all seasons.

Stock size or a size thinner snows make all the difference.

I've driven a newer Corolla and am familiar with the twitchy nature of the throttle. This was on dry pavement, but I can't imagine how much worse it would be when traction is at a premium. I've driven my fair share of FWD automatics in the snow and do not usually encounter any problems that may be cured by a manual transmission.

Auto = easier to drive in the snow. Especially since you can eaaaasssssseeee on the throttle and apply exactly the torque required to get moving and not an in-lb more (without slipping the clutch all day). Same reason a lot of rock crawlers like automatics.

You can also do some front diff trickery by riding the brakes and the gas at the same time to even the torque ditribution to the front wheels (you can do this with a manual as well, if you have 3 feet)

And then of course, many autos do not engine brake in higher gears, so when you let off the gas, you don't run the risk of slipping the front wheels with compression braking vs. a manual.

That said, driving a manual in snow doesn't bother me one bit.

I'll take FWD with a good auto in the snow, given a choice. To this day, I'm shocked at the performance of my mom's Saab 9-3 in the snow.

I was home from school for the holidays years ago, and got caught out in a January snowstorm at about 4am on untouched, hilly country roads. I put the Saab in W (for 'wuss mode') and it climbed hills that had got my family stuck in the past in a variety of other cars throughout the years. All this on all-seaons, too. I was converted at that moment.

So this is what I got from this. I experience matters and tires but for the most part.

FWD + Manual=GOOD

FWD + Auto with paddle shifter or snow,eco,performance settings = GOOD

FWD + Auto with sensitive throttle = BAD

best snow car I ever had was my 1st gen Hyundai Excel. Even with crappy all seasons (in the wider OEM 175/60/13) I could pass all sorts of AWD and 4X4s in the snow.. it was actually a lot of fun.. one of the few things about that car that WAS fun

I've driven FWD, RWD and 4WD in the snow, from black ice, to a dusting, all the way up to a white-out. Tires make all the difference, choice of transmission, not so much.

That having been said, I recently rented a late model corolla , and it was one of the worst cars I've ever driven. The throttle by wire was especially bad, and the auto trans wasn't much better. I've driven plenty of drive by wire vehicles, none even remotely as poor as that 'Rolla.

@happyandy

Why is it bad? Is it what I mentioned or other things?

IMO, manual gearboxes are better in the snow (and everywhere else for that matter). It allows you to choose a higher gear than an auto would (ex. Top gear @ 30mph), won't change gear at the wrong time, allows you to quickly declutch if necessary, and allows for better engine braking. Many people make the mistake of slipping the clutch rather than the tires, let the tires slip instead. Snow tires need a considerable amount of slip to generate maximum traction. Like most cars today, Toyotas come with cheap "all-season" tires (no season tires in my book). Trying to drive on these tires is like trying to assemble Ikea furniture with the tools provided. I'd recommend buying a set of winter tires and mounting them on the OE wheels (for winter use) and buying a set of 16" wheels with either ultra-high or max performance summer tires (for use in the other three seasons). Increasing tire pressure drastically helps in wet and snowy conditions because it allows the tread pattern to be more prominent.

Also what tires, what tire size and with what tread depth do you have on the car? Does it have traction control or stability control?

Someone already said it. FWD works best with skinny tires inflated properly.

Mmadness wrote: Many people make the mistake of slipping the clutch rather than the tires, let the tires slip instead. Snow tires need a considerable amount of slip to generate maximum traction.

most tyres are like that in snow. When I got caught out in a blizzard on star specs in the Ti.. I would spin the rears from a stop and then let go of the gas.. the spinning wheels would transfer their momentium from spinning to moving the car. Once I was rolling, it was just a matter of keeping wheel spin moderate

z31maniac wrote:

nicksta43 wrote: RWD for the win. For me FWD is dangerous in the snow. I simply can not do it. I guess that comes from having a second gen f-body as my first car. To your question I would rather have a clutch.

No offense but this sounds like the typical GRM dogma. I'll take FWD and proper tires over RWD and proper tires any day of the week in inclement weather. Yeah, dry, warm and sticky tires ........sure I'll take RWD but when it's nasty, give me FWD

None taken and I completely understand.

When I started driving we seemed to have much more snow than we do now days. My first car and the car I learned to drive in was a 80' Trans Am. Drove it through many snow storms and even in white out conditions.

One night it snowed about 3" on top of some very hard packed snow that had slightly melted the day before and turned to ice. I lived in the city with on street parking and the streets where crowned heavily. They didn't cancel school and Mom was very worried about me driving the T/A to school. She told me to drive her car, a 85' Riviera ( ton of weight over the driven wheels) with fresh winter tires on it. After ten minutes of me trying to get the car away form the curb, and the front end washing out and falling back to the curb, I gave up, threw her the keys, hopped in the T/A and had no troubles on the way to school.

That was the first attempt of FWD in the snow. Subsequent attempts resulted in even more failure. The worst ended in me stuffing the front of a 89' Century I had into the front of a church about three houses down form my house in a failed attempt of taking a corner at about 5 M.P.H.

Never had an issue in any truck, van or RWD car on proper tires that I have driven. Never got where I was going in any FWD car I've been unfortunate enough to be stuck in in the snow.

Just my experience and preference. I know many will disagree with me but I cringe every time I hear someone spout out the same old shtick about how superior FWD is in the snow.

Actually I feel let down in my lack of ability to drive FWD cars. I like to think of myself as a very complete and skilled driver and not having this skill is a serious blow to my ego.

Some implementations of drive by wire are actually pretty good, I can easily modulate the throttle on our Ram HEMI truck on slippery surfaces to avoid wheelspin. It all depends on the implementation...

In terms of the original question, I'd prefer a manual for snow but the torque converter in an auto can be an advantage when starting off. I like the manual better because I can always be in the right gear at the right time, and can change gears quickly if need be.