E30 as a high-mileage DD?

I've been helping my girlfriend look for a car for a while now; sort of getting a head start for when she needs a new car when the 200k mi, 13 year old, road-hard-put-up-wet Focus she has finally bites the dust. We've been looking for something that's both economical for her 100+ mile round trip commute but delivers on the fun/cool quotient when she's not on the slab to and from work. The thing is, between my job, hobbies and utility we need for house/dogs, I'm pretty much resigned to not being able to DD a sportscar, so she'll be the one driving the fun car. (Until I build that V8 Volvo wagon or drop a blown 4.8 L33 in my truck, that is.)

Anyway, of the myriad options we've been considering, from new to classics, one that's in our radar at the moment is the venerable E30. I'm particularly intrigued by one on the r3vlimited classifieds right now with a 4 cylinder and some suspension work. That strikes me as a great balance between economy and fun - we can both appreciate the 'slow car fast' philosophy. And most of the fratbros seem to have moved on, leaving these classics to be enjoyed without their stigma attached, I think. To me, this is a useable classic.

How are they to live with? What kind of mpg does a pretty stock 318 with a 4.10 rear end return? How are they on a highway drone for an hour and a half twice a day? I know they're pretty stout and easy to maintain, and from what I gather both aftermarket and stock parts are fairly attainable.

What's not to like about an E30 as a daily with a(n un)healthy amount of interstate slog in the mix?

Subbing. SWMBO might be saddled with a 90 mile round trip to commute to her $10/hr job shortly. Cherokee isn't going to cut it, and she's been bugging me for an E30 for about... 4 years.

alex wrote: I've been helping my girlfriend look for a car for a while now; sort of getting a head start for when she *needs* a new car when the 200k mi, 13 year old, road-hard-put-up-wet Focus she has finally bites the dust. We've been looking for something that's both economical for her 100+ mile round trip commute but delivers on the fun/cool quotient when she's not on the slab to and from work. The thing is, between my job, hobbies and utility we need for house/dogs, I'm pretty much resigned to not being able to DD a sportscar, so she'll be the one driving the fun car. (Until I build that V8 Volvo wagon or drop a blown 4.8 L33 in my truck, that is.) Anyway, of the myriad options we've been considering, from new to classics, one that's in our radar at the moment is the venerable E30. I'm particularly intrigued by one on the r3vlimited classifieds right now with a 4 cylinder and some suspension work. That strikes me as a great balance between economy and fun - we can both appreciate the 'slow car fast' philosophy. And most of the fratbros seem to have moved on, leaving these classics to be enjoyed without their stigma attached, I think. To me, this is a useable classic. How are they to live with? What kind of mpg does a pretty stock 318 with a 4.10 rear end return? How are they on a highway drone for an hour and a half twice a day? I know they're pretty stout and easy to maintain, and from what I gather both aftermarket and stock parts are fairly attainable. What's not to like about an E30 as a daily with a(n un)healthy amount of interstate slog in the mix?

High 20s maybe 30. Kind of loud, interior noise, compared to more modern options. The rain rails on the A-pillars catch a lot of wind.

Shot rear suspension bushings that make for weird handling and knocking sounds. Sloppy shifter bushings. Stay away from all auto's, not very robust.

Not a lot that is different from typical old car type stuff.

Remember its a 20+ year old car, things will fail occasionally from age. There will be nickle and diming, good luck with working air con, etc. At modern highway speeds, it will be buzzy, IRL mpg will likely be lower than a focus. I looked at them for a while in my very long, frustrating college DD search and ended up in a 99 Prizm(Corolla) instead. Its ridiculously competent on a set of Monroe shocks and reasonably entertaining on H rated tires. The 5 speed is geared deep to match the torquey motor, it turns ~3200 RPM @80 actual mph. Its far safer than anything short of a full size or a Benz sold in the 80s. My worst tank ever was 30.5 mpg. The best part is occasionally you find somebody with a Prizm that doesn't know they have 98% of a Corolla (Prizms got massively oversized meat locker Delphi AC, that's the big difference) and let it go for Cavalier money.

I drive (well, drove, now that it's in the garage, but that was intentional) a 1991 318i every day for a year 20 miles to work with the occasional road trip. Keep in mind the 1991s have an M42, which is an entirely different engine from the M10 (in a very good way). It took me about 6 months to find an M42-powered sedan with a manual transmission.

As with all older cars, it comes down to the previous owner. I was very lucky, and my PO was a mechanic at a BMW specialty shop, so the cooling system, PS system, vacuum lines, and PS system were all rebuilt/replaced shortly before I bought it. I had no failures to speak of, and it leaked less than my wife's 2003 Accord.

That being said, the AC is not spectacular. Especially in Houston. And as much as you'll say it doesn't matter, the lack of cupholders is annoying at 6AM on the way to work. I usually got mid-20s for mileage, sometimes less when I had my bike on the roof, occasionally over 30 on the highway. At 70+mph you'll be spinning almost 4K on the tach, though, so it does get a little buzzy. Mine did have a catalytic converter on the way out, so that didn't help.

If you want a liveable (almost) classic, it's hard to find a better option. They're fantastic cars. I'm glad I didn't sell mine, as I came real close a few weeks ago. Now it's getting a little snail under the hood for more go-power.

What's wrong with the Focus again? Is it something beyond shotgunning the control arms, new struts and hats, some rotors and such, etc? A 2000 Focus is probably going to be an easier 'restore' than a 1990 E30, assuming the bodies are in similar condition, and I think the Focus will do better at the pump.

Nothing terribly wrong with the Focus yet, but it's lived a hard life: it was bought new for my sister in high school, spent several years in Chicago in the hands of college kids - basically mercilessly beaten on with negligible maintenance at best. It's just beginning to tire out, and neither of us have ever really been in love with it. We'll keep it around until it dies, but we're looking to prevent her being stuck without a car and having to buy one when that time comes.

If mine ('85 with an M42 swap) had full interior and all its soundproofing still there, I wouldn't mind DD'ing it. It has fairly pleasant road manners, good damping (with Bilstein HDs) and a good ride. I see mid-20s mpg to and from the track, and that's while towing about 500lbs on a small trailer in some hilly areas. Otherwise, everything works well.

Power window motors go bad (mine is swapped to manual) A/C I can't say since I took mine out

There's a guy on R3vlimited that makes a dual cupholder that fits in or replaces the ashtray area, which is nice (my cupholder is a bit more ghetto, being a rallycross car).

I'll just drop this here.

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/200x-classifieds/feeler-maybe-fs-90-325i-5-speed-coupe/65331/page1/

Swank and Alex, I'm pretty close to both of you. Might I suggest a knife fight to decide who has the honor of buying my fine automobile?

Oh, and I forgot to put in the ad, it's got 167k miles, the AC does not work because the front seal went out of the compressor, but I have a seal kit that I plan on installing this weekend.

In this case, an E36 might be better. More modern, just as cheap, and just as easy to work on.

What I've noticed DDing an e36 is that when something breaks - nearly guaranteed that the part is not in stock - even at the BMW dealer - so having lots of spares and staying up on maintenance is important. Any glitch can take it off the road for at least a day - up to a week waiting for parts. YMMV

I have an '87 325is that I dd. my commute is ~90 miles total. Its a great dd, before I used to daily an S2000. It currently has 201k miles and I purchased it with 180k miles.

Mileage for me is around 23mpg, no more no less. I use 93 since mine has a chip.

I bought it, did quite a bit of maintenance and just drove it for the next 20k miles just doing oil changes and adding gas. I also adjusted the valves twice.

It cruises at around 3500rpms at 75 and I dont feel its noisy at all. I have a Supersprint exhaust and bavauto headers and the exhaust is quieter than the factory.

oldtin wrote: What I've noticed DDing an e36 is that when something breaks - nearly guaranteed that the part is not in stock - even at the BMW dealer - so having lots of spares and staying up on maintenance is important. Any glitch can take it off the road for at least a day - up to a week waiting for parts. YMMV

odd... while the dealer around me sucks for older BMWs... there is an "import house" down near AC that carries everything. This included a waterpump for an M44 when mine grenaded

I am lucky to have a good dealer and two solid indie BMW specialists in town, along with a handful of other Euro shops. Hopefully between them, parts shouldn't be too bad.

^Call around and ask about a few items like timing belt/water pump, plugs, etc.

I always had to plan maintenance in advance when I had my E30s.

I have the same issue with the 944 around NYC/Brooklyn. Shops just won't touch them, parts all need to be ordered in advance, and unfortunately the lack of good driveway space means I can't do the more involved work myself. E30's on the other hand are everywhere in Brooklyn and I have 2 great BMW shops within almost walking distance. All the more reason the 944 is being traded for an E30 any day now.

I've done prison time in... er, I mean DD... my E30 from time to time... parts have never been an issue - Pelican seems to have most stuff in stock and in my hands within a couple of days. Mine was converted to r134 and seemed to work well enough after I bought it, but I guess it needs a charge every season. Mileage was in the mid-20's on a good day, running mid-grade (no chip). The cruise control system works well.

There are worse places to spend time, I guess, but in the end it's almost a 30 year old design. A good car in its day, but a bit antiquated now and still filled with a number of modern car complications. Of course, my car breaks every other time I drive it (gingerly - since I've given up on it being any sort of performance car), so my opinion is rather sour. If my E30 was even half as reliable as my VW, maybe I'd have a better opinion of it.

Personally, I consider anyone who wants an E30 for a DD is brave indeed, but of course those same folks say the same thing about me and my Mk IV.

Ian F wrote: Pelican seems to have most stuff in stock and in my hands within a couple of days.

And I always ordered from Blunttech and had the parts quickly, point being, you still have to plan maintenance in advance. You have to buy everything you think you might need so you don't get in the middle of a job and go, "E36 M3, now it's incapacitated for 4 more days while I wait on parts."

Whereas a '97 F150, you could probably rebuild the entire thing from a small town parts shop on a Sunday.

oldtin wrote: What I've noticed DDing an e36 is that when something breaks - nearly guaranteed that the part is not in stock - even at the BMW dealer - so having lots of spares and staying up on maintenance is important. Any glitch can take it off the road for at least a day - up to a week waiting for parts. YMMV

I've usually been able to find parts with no problem for my E36 here in Atlanta the same day, although I may have to call several parts houses to do this.

Perhaps it's because all the cheap E36s are in Atlanta.

z31maniac wrote: And I always ordered from Blunttech and had the parts quickly, point being, you still have to plan maintenance in advance. You have to buy everything you think you might need so you don't get in the middle of a job and go, "E36 M3, now it's incapacitated for 4 more days while I wait on parts." Whereas a '97 F150, you could probably rebuild the entire thing from a small town parts shop on a Sunday.

Well, that's pretty much the case with any German car. I always order parts for my TDi well ahead of time. I was actually shocked when the local Pep Boys had a front wheel bearing in stock when I eff'd up the first install (damn c-clip..).

Hell... even with my E150 and the Dodge I ordered parts as local sources were sporadic at best. I live 5 min from a Cummins service center so parts for that were never an issue.

oldtin wrote: What I've noticed DDing an e36 is that when something breaks - nearly guaranteed that the part is not in stock - even at the BMW dealer - so having lots of spares and staying up on maintenance is important. Any glitch can take it off the road for at least a day - up to a week waiting for parts. YMMV

I'm in the same boat working on my E36 - it's not that you can't get the parts locally, it's just that getting them locally costs 2-4x as much as you can get them online. Just as an example, E36 rear wheel bearings were $90 a piece from the local import parts place, no brand specified. Pelican or Autohaus AZ will sell you OEM bearings for $38 or less. Patience will make you rich, but you better have second car to drive while you wait for parts.

I like cool cars, but I am astounded at the number of people that seem to post on this site about long commutes and consider a relative gas-hog like an E30 as an acceptable commuting car. My commute is 9.7 miles and I think my ~30.4mpg (mixed) Saturn is too much of a hog.

Swank Force One wrote: Subbing. SWMBO might be saddled with a 90 mile round trip to commute to her $10/hr job shortly. Cherokee isn't going to cut it, and she's been bugging me for an E30 for about... 4 years.

That seems like a financially stupid decision. Even if you were in the lowest possible tax bracket, you're looking at what... $75/day take home pay? As discussed in the other thread, the cheapest cost to operate cars (without taxes or insurance) are around 0.10 - 0.15/mile, with an E30 likely being more like 0.25. .25 X 90 = 22.50, so roughly 30% of her income would be spent on commuting costs alone? A minimum wage job within walking distance would bring in the same amount of cash. I hope she is gaining something else incredibly valuable from that job.

^ That thought crossed my mind as well. My running cost (with Canadian fuel prices in 2008-09) on a 325e was 0.24/km over 40,000 kms.

This is why I'm still thinking that throwing $1000 at a Focus already owned is going to make way more sense than acquiring an E30 and then using it for daily driver duty. I'm pulling the grand out of an orrifice, I don't know what the car needs, but getting less than 30mpg average with a Focus seems hard to do. Getting more than 30mpg average with an E30 seems just as difficult.

This is probably where some 325e owner comes in and says they pull 40mpg all day every day. Or maybe some eco-modded 318i with an M44 swap and an MS tuned to a hair width of lean miss.

I drove and tracked 325e fuel mileage for over a year. 60-65mph, and I averaged 28.8 US mpg over 40,000 kms.

Note that this was better than my 2003 Protege (which I also owned at the time). I also found the 325e much more enjoyable as a commuter.