e30, e36, r53? Help me choose my next project

Hi everyone. I'll hopefully this year be finished up with my current major money pit project of a built BP NB Miata. As we all know, our minds start to wander and think about our next project. I have a plan to get something euro and then K24 swap it.

Yes, I know there are probably much cheaper/better swaps out there, but I've always wanted to take a European chassis and drop a Japanese engine into it.

This will be my first time doing an engine swap, so something with a swap kit to help me out would be preferred. From what I'm seeing, the e30, e36, and r53 all have swap kits and support available.

Now that brings me to chassis decision. I would prefer to spend $5k or less which I know will be super tough for the e30. The e36 looks to be going the same way, but I am finding plenty of r53 MINIs for less than $5k.

Which chassis would you choose and why? I know the $5k limit will probably be tough, maybe impossible for the e30, and basically just clapped out e36 territory.

I feel like my best bet is the r53, but curious on the driving experience compared to the BMWs.

What's the end goal? Clapped out racecar, dual duty stripped out street car, or daily duty comfy interior?

The r53 is just about the most fun I've had in a car with my pants on. I did not enjoy working on it. They seem to have hit the skids for value right now, so the market is pretty thick with cheap ones, and the support is out there. e30's are becoming unobtainium on the affordable front, and e36's aren't too far behind. 

For an "ease of use" perspective and lack of electronic nannies and other bullE36 M3 to deal with, e30. For the cheapest move possible, r53. 

I've owned two of the three (E30 & R53) and have been intimately involved with the third (ex had an E36 M3), so I have thoughts... but knowing the PO's goals and the K24 swap idea would influence my choices. 

I have contemplated a K series swap into my E36 that presently has a 350 in it, if for nothing else but making it easier to do maintenance on, but that's a lot of money to make it easier to change spark plugs.

How about a combination of the first two (318ti)?? Should be able to get one for cheap considering their stepchild nature, they are LIGHT compared to an e36, and have some cool factor as there arent as many driving around. 

Also swap parts should be the same aside from driveshaft length I would presume as they had an e36 front end and an e30 rear end.

If swap parts are available for the 128i, could probably pickup an auto version with higher mileage within your budget and have a much nicer interior. No idea how r53's are, but buddy absolutely LOVED driving his on/off track. 

+1 on the e36 ti / compact. Especially if it will be k swapped 

I've owned an E36 M3, and an E30. Driven an R53, almost bought it. 
 

R53s are a BUNCH of fun to drive, a BUNCH of pain to own. I love the idea of a K24 in that chassis. It's just such a fun car to drive, more fun than an E30 by a mile.

E36s are a sweet chassis but slow steering and not as tossable as the MINI. The E30 is a worse chassis and too expensive. Looks cool tho.
 

My vote would be R53, then E36. 

Thanks guys, I forgot about the 318ti, I'm going to have to look at the market for them. Main goal is going to be a fun street car for some weekend enjoyment. The r53 is pulling me in the more I look at them, mostly because of cost-of-entry being low, and from what I've heard (and read here) they are bucket loads of fun. Of course with the K swap all of the finicky drivetrain issues will be solved, but in a way I'll be trading that for other issues because its still an engine swap. 

The company that creates the swap kit + harness for the r53 is also super responsive from what I've seen, which is a positive.

Now to look into the 318ti! Forgot all about those...

I'd say either e30 or e36.  However, e46 are cheap as dirt.

High revving rwd fun sounds better to me than fwd anything.

wvumtnbkr said:

I'd say either e30 or e36.  However, e46 are cheap as dirt.

High revving rwd fun sounds better to me than fwd anything.

I've never really been too swayed away by FWD vs RWD...I mean yes, of course RWD is going to be superior in most cases, but I find FWD can be very fun as well. I wonder if there is a kit for the e46...I'll have to search, because you're right they are cheap as dirt right now.

If you're taking the powertrain out of Mini and replacing it with Honda stuff, does that delete all the things that make the R53 a pain? Or is it chassis/electronics stuff that make that car a headache? They're so much cheaper than an 8th gen Civic Si in the same condition, so they have some appeal as a stripped down fun car if you don't rely on it to get you to work comfortably every day.

dannyp84 said:

If you're taking the powertrain out of Mini and replacing it with Honda stuff, does that delete all the things that make the R53 a pain? Or is it chassis/electronics stuff that make that car a headache? They're so much cheaper than an 8th gen Civic Si in the same condition, so they have some appeal as a stripped down fun car if you don't rely on it to get you to work comfortably every day.

I haven't dove too deep down the R53 rabbit hole yet so hopefully someone who has experience with one can chime in, but from my limited research it seems the engine is especially finicky, along with some of the sensors relating to the engine.

Hopefully someone with firsthand experience can shed more light on that though.

From my experience, my Cooper S trashed the transmission at 90K miles, fortunately it had an extended warranty or it would have cost me 8K. The engines don't last past 100K. I think a K series and honda transmission would make one of these perfect. The chassis handling would be unaffected and these cars are a hoot to drive.

dherr (Forum Supporter) said:

From my experience, my Cooper S trashed the transmission at 90K miles, fortunately it had an extended warranty or it would have cost me 8K. The engines don't last past 100K. I think a K series and honda transmission would make one of these perfect. The chassis handling would be unaffected and these cars are a hoot to drive.

Sounds like a worthwhile swap then, I guess thats why theres a whole community out there around swapping in Honda drivetrains to the r53!

Olemiss540 said:

If swap parts are available for the 128i, could probably pickup an auto version with higher mileage within your budget and have a much nicer interior. No idea how r53's are, but buddy absolutely LOVED driving his on/off track. 

I love my 128i. I'm also a big fan of the K-series. But I don't think I would swap the N52 out of a 128i for a K-series. I would rather keep the extra torque from the 3.0L. 
 

OP- any chance you're a roadster fan? If so, a BMW Z3 might be interesting with a K24. 

roninsoldier83 said:

Olemiss540 said:

If swap parts are available for the 128i, could probably pickup an auto version with higher mileage within your budget and have a much nicer interior. No idea how r53's are, but buddy absolutely LOVED driving his on/off track. 

I love my 128i. I'm also a big fan of the K-series. But I don't think I would swap the N52 out of a 128i for a K-series. I would rather keep the extra torque from the 3.0L. 
 

OP- any chance you're a roadster fan? If so, a BMW Z3 might be interesting with a K24. 

I am actually a roadster fan. Is the engine bay of the Z3 the same as the e36? I think the rear end is e30 (unless I'm mistaken) but I wonder if the e36 kit could work on the engine side in the Z3...

Japanspec said:

dherr (Forum Supporter) said:

From my experience, my Cooper S trashed the transmission at 90K miles, fortunately it had an extended warranty or it would have cost me 8K. The engines don't last past 100K. I think a K series and honda transmission would make one of these perfect. The chassis handling would be unaffected and these cars are a hoot to drive.

Sounds like a worthwhile swap then, I guess thats why theres a whole community out there around swapping in Honda drivetrains to the r53!

K series with a small blower would be an EXCELLENT cooper s. Make sure you get a slick top though, the sunroof cars like to leak and burn up chassis electrical. 

I've been involved in the R53 world since my ex- bought one new in 2003.  I've owned an 2006 JCW version since 2016.  I know dozens of owners and many who have owned them since new. I probably have as much experience as any amateur wrench when it comes to tearing the cars apart and putting them back together.

Honestly, dherr's comment about the transmission is something of a rarity in my experience. Of my friends, only one has done a transmission replacement.  Hell, one of my friends has a CVT Cooper with well over 200K on the original transmission. 

The R53 drivetrain seems to be fairly stout.  Is it the most efficient, powerful or well sealed? No. Not by a long shot.  But they can take abuse pretty well.  But like any BMW/Bosch product, they are prone to CEL's.  My car (and every R53 I've worked on) leaks oil like a proper British car (I also own 3 Triumphs). 

Now the chassis and electronics, on the other hand... those can be tedious to deal with.  I have never liked the MINI sunroof and my car doesn't have one (one reason I bought it), so I haven't had to deal with the joys of the drains clogging/leaking and then dumping water onto the Body Control Module (BCM computer).  The latest PITA with my car is the bonnet/boot latch sensors that cause the BCM to think one of them is open and the corresponding warning light (that flashes and chimes). 

I would need to do more research into the K24 swap to say whether or not I'd consider it worth it as a street car. It obviously depends greatly on where you live and whether or not you'll need the car to pass an emissions inspection. I don't know if the K24 swap harness somehow manages to trick the ECU into displaying R53 emissions data to an inspection computer.  If not, it would be an instant Fail where I live in PA. There are a few other things I'd want to look into as well.  Does the K24 swap include a bracket to reinstall the R53 A/C compressor? If not, that would be a non-starter for me. Functional A/C is mandatory.  Granted, I'm old and want to be comfortable.

The other option would be to completely gut the car and rewire it with a custom gauge cluster and hot-rod harness kit.  While that sounds like a ton of work it may be less tedious than keeping the factory BCM harness. Especially if you don't need the car to pass a state inspection. 

Japanspec said:

roninsoldier83 said:

Olemiss540 said:

If swap parts are available for the 128i, could probably pickup an auto version with higher mileage within your budget and have a much nicer interior. No idea how r53's are, but buddy absolutely LOVED driving his on/off track. 

I love my 128i. I'm also a big fan of the K-series. But I don't think I would swap the N52 out of a 128i for a K-series. I would rather keep the extra torque from the 3.0L. 
 

OP- any chance you're a roadster fan? If so, a BMW Z3 might be interesting with a K24. 

I am actually a roadster fan. Is the engine bay of the Z3 the same as the e36? I think the rear end is e30 (unless I'm mistaken) but I wonder if the e36 kit could work on the engine side in the Z3...

It's my understanding that the Z3 is based on the E36, but uses the rear semi-trailing arm suspension of the E30. 
 

I would assume a kit for an E36 would be similar? Probably not a bad idea to reach out to whoever makes a swap kit to confirm. 

What about a K-swap into a FWD Honda like an EG or EK-series Civic?  I know this isn't what you asked about, but I'm not sure why an R53-type Mini would be okay and an EK hatchback Civic wouldn't be, right?

Ian F (Forum Supporter) said:

I've been involved in the R53 world since my ex- bought one new in 2003.  I've owned an 2006 JCW version since 2016.  I know dozens of owners and many who have owned them since new. I probably have as much experience as any amateur wrench when it comes to tearing the cars apart and putting them back together.

Honestly, dherr's comment about the transmission is something of a rarity in my experience. Of my friends, only one has done a transmission replacement.  Hell, one of my friends has a CVT Cooper with well over 200K on the original transmission. 

The R53 drivetrain seems to be fairly stout.  Is it the most efficient, powerful or well sealed? No. Not by a long shot.  But they can take abuse pretty well.  But like any BMW/Bosch product, they are prone to CEL's.  My car (and every R53 I've worked on) leaks oil like a proper British car (I also own 3 Triumphs). 

Now the chassis and electronics, on the other hand... those can be tedious to deal with.  I have never liked the MINI sunroof and my car doesn't have one (one reason I bought it), so I haven't had to deal with the joys of the drains clogging/leaking and then dumping water onto the Body Control Module (BCM computer).  The latest PITA with my car is the bonnet/boot latch sensors that cause the BCM to think one of them is open and the corresponding warning light (that flashes and chimes). 

I would need to do more research into the K24 swap to say whether or not I'd consider it worth it as a street car. It obviously depends greatly on where you live and whether or not you'll need the car to pass an emissions inspection. I don't know if the K24 swap harness somehow manages to trick the ECU into displaying R53 emissions data to an inspection computer.  If not, it would be an instant Fail where I live in PA. There are a few other things I'd want to look into as well.  Does the K24 swap include a bracket to reinstall the R53 A/C compressor? If not, that would be a non-starter for me. Functional A/C is mandatory.  Granted, I'm old and want to be comfortable.

The other option would be to completely gut the car and rewire it with a custom gauge cluster and hot-rod harness kit.  While that sounds like a ton of work it may be less tedious than keeping the factory BCM harness. Especially if you don't need the car to pass a state inspection. 

Thanks for the info! So this wouldnt be daily driven and I'm also in PA, so I can get past the emissions bit through an exemption of driving less than 5k miles per year. Thats how it is with my current Miatas as well, although one is registered as an antique.

For A/C I'm not too picky on that, but there is a bracket that relocates the compressor with the kit so that sounds like it should be covered.

pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

What about a K-swap into a FWD Honda like an EG or EK-series Civic?  I know this isn't what you asked about, but I'm not sure why an R53-type Mini would be okay and an EK hatchback Civic wouldn't be, right?

Nothing wrong with that either, I just have this itch to scratch of stuffing a Japanese engine into a European chassis for whatever non-logical reason.

In reply to Japanspec :

If you did a k swap would you look at the AWD option? 
 

Is there a benefit for a rwd based all wheel drive system vs a fwd based all wheel drive system? 

Just throwing out a potential idea......several months ago , I saw an R50 MINI for sale in central Indiana. It had been K-swapped, along with the rest of the drive train from a Honda CRV, then turbocharged. So there was a awd , turbo, K-swapped MINI. It was sitting at regular ride height and went like stink in the video. It looked pretty well done and didn't seem to have a lot of fabrication to get the rear axles and drive shaft under the floor. I thought it was a pretty neat idea.